Criminals

[MILAMBER]

quote:

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Originally posted by Grojlach:
Well, I'm not a master debater so I will leave the real debating to others, but I disagree with practically *all* of your points. Just a mention that an execution using an electrical chair costs more money than a life long jail sentence. So what is it exactly that it is bothering you? Money can't be the issue, is it just that you don't think they are worth living? You want them to be shot like dogs? Excuse me, but like Donut said, how much will the U.S. be better than the countries they despise (Irak, North Korea, Afghanistan) if they do exactly the same things?
Your second point is just sad right-extremist paranoia, as if everyone entering the country of whom you even suspect to have an Arabian heritage is a potential criminal...
Actually, your rant only reminded me how happy I am that I live in one of the most liberal countries in the world, with hardly any right-extremist inhabitants... All that tolerance, no death penalties, all those rights, rather normal acceptance procedures of foreigners in our society, Big Brother only being a thing on TV you can zap away from... Probably a hell on Earth for you.

[ 01-10-2002: Message edited by: Grojlach ]

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How does an electric chair execution cost more then a life in prison? Did you know that it costs almost $60,000 per year to keep inmates in prison?

For what it's worth, I agree with you completely Morgan.

[Grojlach]

quote:

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Originally posted by MILAMBER:



How does an electric chair execution cost more then a life in prison? Did you know that it costs almost $60,000 per year to keep inmates in prison?

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Read this article. A quote from it: "In Texas, a death penalty case costs taxpayers an average of 2.3 million, about three times the cost of imprisoning someone in a single cell at the highest security level for 40 years."
Take your conclusions.

EDIT: Oh, and I understand your confusion... I wrote the electrical chair costs more than a lifetime jail sentence, but I meant the whole process of capital punishment on the whole, including extremely expensive trials to prove for 100% someone is guilty or not.
Sorry about that.

[ 01-15-2002: Message edited by: Grojlach ]

[Smeagol]

*SHOCKED* Do they really have food ,clothes and blankets in prisons Durrwyn. If it was down to me I'd make them freeze or starve to death. We could just put them in a room and see how long it is before they die, that sounds like a good idea and not at all fascist.

I'm sorry if I've offended you Durrwyn, as you have said before you are an orthodox christian so I can see why you have no forgiveness.

-end sarcasm mode

And 250 I have a problem with you.

[Grojlach]

quote:

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Originally posted by Smeagol:
*SHOCKED* Do they really have food ,clothes and blankets in prisons Durrwyn. If it was down to me I'd make them freeze or starve to death. We could just put them in a room and see how long it is before they die, that sounds like a good idea and not at all fascist.

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Cool! And if we put cameras in that room, we can call it Big Reaper and voilà! Another big TV hit.
Gives a new twist to "Survivor" as well... [img]tongue.gif[/img]
[/sarcasm]

[ 01-15-2002: Message edited by: Grojlach ]

[Lifetime]

quote:

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Originally posted by Smeagol:
*SHOCKED* Do they really have food ,clothes and blankets in prisons Durrwyn. If it was down to me I'd make them freeze or starve to death. We could just put them in a room and see how long it is before they die, that sounds like a good idea and not at all fascist.

I'm sorry if I've offended you Durrwyn, as you have said before you are an orthodox christian so I can see why you have no forgiveness.

-end sarcasm mode

And 250 I have a problem with you.

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Going a bit far there dude. Firstly I dont know whether your post was made with sarcastic intent or anything but an orthodox christian should be forgiving. Dont get the wrong idea that we're all religious Nazis. And secondly I dont think you should provoke a fight with 250. Not happy with it, let it lie. There's no need for flame-baiting here. Thats just the way 250 is, and he can seem overly passionate about things, but let him be.

[250]

thanks

[Smeagol]

Just to clear things up I was being sarcastic, and I do realise that most christians are great people. Sorry 250 but you get away with murder in this forum.

[Melusine]

quote:

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Originally posted by 250:

I tell you what, there is no excuse for murder or rape. any one of your people was raped? has any one of your family members being murdered?? talking about ■■■■■■■ forgiveness then!!!! loads of bullshit!

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No, let ME tell you something, Leo.
Like so many other women (sadly) I've been harassed and sexually assaulted, and I know one thing for sure: Even if I would be raped I would still not condone the death penalty, and I wouldn't want to kill the one who did it. I WOULD want to see the one who did it punished, but I would still be disgusted when people think they can speak for me and say the man should be put to death.
Yes, there are crimes that *would* make me feel like killing the committer, like child rape and some cases of murder. But I don't believe in capital punishment on principle. I believe it's wrong for people to decide about the deaths of others.

Aelia made a good point about life in prison, one that I made myself in a similar discussion we had here a while back. Morgan, try to look at a blank piece of the wall in your room. Look at it for an hour. Feeling bored? Frustrated maybe? Imagine knowing that you're going to have to look at that piece of wall for the rest of your life.
If you really have such a problem with how prisoners are "pampered", then why aren't you arguing for harsher conditions in prison instead of for killing them off? Think about that for a while. I can assure you that life in prison isn't a holiday - and it shouldn't be. After all, it is punishment. Sufficient punishment even for the worst of criminals. So no one is suggesting we pamper them: I'm all for long sentences (multiple times lifelong for the worst criminals) and I don't think they should be allowed drugs and truly luxury items. But I really think you are underestimating the kind of punishment that is being locked up forever. What is a book in your room and a half-hour walk through the prison's inner court if you can never go to the village you were born again, never visit your friends and family, never travel, go to a movie, a concert? What is three meals a day (and contrary to what you may think, though the food will keep them alive, it's nothing exquisite) if you can never go to your favourite restaurant or club again? Don't Americans value their freedom over anything? I dare say it IS punishment. And even if it costs money, what should that matter? Death row cells and executions cost TONS of money as well. And tell me honestly - if you really are so concerned about the victims of these horrible crimes, then how dare you even consider money? Isn't the most important thing that we find the best possible solution for all parties involved, not that we find the solution that we think will cost us a little less of our precious tax money?

Donut and Groj - very good posts, I have nothing to add but that I completely agree.

[Lifetime]

quote:

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Originally posted by Melusine:


No, let ME tell you something, Leo.
Like so many other women (sadly) I've been harassed and sexually assaulted, and I know one thing for sure: Even if I would be raped I would still not condone the death penalty, and I wouldn't want to kill the one who did it. I WOULD want to see the one who did it punished, but I would still be disgusted when people think they can speak for me and say the man should be put to death.
Yes, there are crimes that *would* make me feel like killing the committer, like child rape and some cases of murder. But I don't believe in capital punishment on principle. I believe it's wrong for people to decide about the deaths of others.

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mieow.. when she makes a point she really makes a point..

[Elif Godson]

Growing up in the mid west I knew many "ethnic"people. We played baseball,football,soccer, and hide and go seek together. we knew not or cared not about the color of our skin or were our parent's came from. My best friend's parent's were American indian's, cherokee if I remeber right one of my friend's rental's were from Spain another from China, and I even had friend's from Lebanon and the middle east.
I grew up knowing wrong from right and I had the respect for my fellow
human being's. And that seem's to be the main thing missing from all over the world " RESPECT has fallen to an all time low. It is one thing to joke with your friend's in private about calling police pig's and saying that you would beat this person up just for looking at you funny or having different belief's, but come on people, control yourselves. A neibor of mine got into an altercation with a 13 yr old. over the boy throwing rock's at his house. He asked the boy to stop and the kid told him to "F" off because if you touch me my parent's will sue you. And he was right, the guy went out after a few more attempts and a broken window and grabbed the boy to take him home. He brused the boy's arm and now he is being sued for battery and mental anguish. Never mind that the boy broke a window in his house or that he has dent's in his car from the rock's that boy threw.
This all tie's back to what has been said earlier, people pushing the limit's of the constiution for there own personal gain. There has to be a time when the judical system will say enough is enough. I agree with the death penalty myself, I have seen what happen's to some criminal's who has faced it. It isnt pretty, but it never was meant to be. It is the final act of your life. You and whatever god's you may pray to are all that is left when you are in that chamber. I agree that it can be cruel and unusual, and sometimes innocent people are sent to there death's. But when you have an individual who has no respect for life or the there own life for that matter you really dont have much choice. Kill them or let them kill other's maybe evem someone close to you. I cannot tell you the anguish you feel when someone that you love is in dire peril at the hand's of such a person. You feel totaly helpless and all you can do is pray that the perpatraitor slip's up enough for you to react and subdue them or yes even use fatal force. It is no fun taking a life, but sometimes you have no choice..

sorry for ranting