is "Goth" a religion?

[WOLFGIR]

Originally posted by Melusine: quote: Originally posted by Lord Shield: yes - Melusine was once a Goth

Uh, no I wasn't.
I liked and still like the music, I have some velvet dresses. However, I also like classical music and rock, and wear clothes that look nothing like goth dresses. [img]smile.gif[/img]
I never felt the slightest need to call myself a Goth, I've never called myself one. Of course people joke about it and I go along, but ummm... no. [/QUOTE]Velvet dresses???

HOOOT HOOOT... er sorry
I thought tGoterna was a rather nice little peiople that suddenly disaperaed from history leaving both the style of architecture and the name behind.

Visi-goterna however... weren´t much of a difference LOL!

About tha life style Goth..

So what? If you want to look like a lich o´r a corpse.. go ahead.
Some of the music is cool though, some is crap, whats new?

Oh oh.. another toxicated post... heheheh! The Whiskey Wolf strikes again!

NA NANANA NNNA NANANNAN NNAN NNANANANANA (and now backwards... )

[Mojo]

I personally don't know any Goths; I'm the closest I know to one. I wear black exclusively, I have the occasional peircing, I paint my nails and I am often seen wearing make up. I dress this way because I think it suits me very well but I also do sometimes enjoy the responses I get from people; you can usually tell how close-minded/ignorant someone is by how much they stare or what they say. I get a lot of shouts of "Goth!" like it's an insult, and a lot of people make references to Satan or Marilyn Manson, which annoys me slightly. I am not religious in any way (despite Al's attempts), but many people think I am simply because of the way I dress.

To answer the question: To me, Goth is not a religion, it is merely a style of dress or a way of thinking. If you dress all in black, it doesn't mean you are a Goth...technically you could be a Goth at heart who wears luminous pink tracksuits, it's mainly down to what you think of yourself.

I'm not a manic depressant, I do not have "issues", if I were to dress normally people may think I'm "normal", but the way I act tends to distract people - most people at least see me as odd.

I'm sure there was more to say but as you can see I've written a lot of crap...see if u can weed out the bits that actually mean something.

[Attalus]

Originally posted by Melusine: Attalus, I wouldn't want any tattos myself. But yeah, it's the shock effect for the most part and in the end it's their decision, and the consequences are also theirs to deal with. In a lot of branches here, they don't really care if you have tattoos or piercings any more. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Well, Melusine, the thing that concerns me is that they have made a life choice, not just wearing black or pretending to be vampires. I see the darned things all of the time, and now. I am beginning to run into regret, because they aren't teenagers any more and they want to fit in, but there's this naked girl on their arm or a snake around their ankle. BTW, my resident espert on the female point of view has pointed out that the girl could just grow her hair and no-one would know. Hmmm, female subtlty strikes again.

Hmm
I thought Goth came with the onset of the eighties and British (male) bands in make up...punks trying to be "cool" (by the inclusion of black clothing exclusively, since the "cool" crowd already wore black) and it became a fad in antisocial behavior that morphed into a sub culture of teen society, some of which never grew out of it and the tats and piercings were gradually added as fashionable rather than freakish when freakish became impossible without implanting spikes under your skin.

I always wore black as a youth/teen. Goth and punk were nowhere in the picture in the 70's I grew up in, but black was anti-social and black was cool. They called us bikers.

LOL And oh yeah, and nowhere did I ever live off of gubment cheese, but I know what you mean Larry, some cities shun the anti-social without any desire to reach any understanding of why they are the way they are.

Tuscon had a large population of street kids...homeless runaways who were seen more oft in "Goth" garb than not. A lot of times it was all they could pull out of someone's trash or afford at used clothing stores...the malnutrition only added to the pale appearance, making kids look more Goth than they actually were. Not to mention being shunned by society has a way of keeping people happy with being anti-social.

EDIT: But on an added note, I attend college with quite a few Goths. Happy young people who just like to be different, more shy than anti-social in most cases and of the ones I have made aquaintences with, really nice people. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 09-04-2002, 07:23 PM: Message edited by: Moni ]

[Leonis]

I'm sorry, but this all seems to me to be akin to discussing whether people who like swimming/surfing can get work etc... Because no law firm's gonna hire someone who wears a bikini/wetsuit all the time are they?

I have worked with goths, cross dressers, surfers, punks, skaters, gays who dress like The Village People, grungers, slackers, rockers, models, musos, kickboxers, Christians, Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, Hindis, Satanists, geeks, freaks... and more - and that was just in one Telecommunications company...

Almost everyone modifies their chosen 'look/s' from work to non-work.
It can be as simple as wearing suits, overalls, a hair net, company shirt, whatever - but I'd wager it's a very small percentage of people who go to work dressed/looking exactly like they do when not there.

And the only time I've seen tatoos get in the way of employment is when they're on the head/hands - the rest can be hidden if needed. (Although I see a number of Maori with tribal facial tatooing in very ordinary/corporate positions - they have the backing of anti-discrimination laws because it's cultural beyond fad/fashion.

[The Hunter of Jahanna]

I see a lot of people in this thread bashing people with tattoos saying that they will have a hard time finding a good job. At last count I had 17 of them and I havent had any trouble finding a job yet. Maybe the problem isnt finding A job , but the RIGHT job. Who wants to work for some corporate tight ass who is going to hassle you if you dont look or dress a certain way? I work in a very busy restaurant and I have made enough over the summer so that from now until April I only have to work 3 days a week to keep up with my bills.All of the managers there have tattoos. Tattoos arent the issue there. At my job it is either work or be fired, tattooed or not. Maybe if the corporate world took the outlook of its not how you look, but how you work they would be a little more efficient.

[Attalus]

Hunter, I've read a few books, Anthony Bourdin's Kitchen Confidential comes to mind, and they basically said, if you are a good, dependable worker, you could get a job with any kitchen you wanted, never mind the tattoos. I am not bashing the people with tattoos, it's your body, but I do see many people who regret them and want to get rid of them, and it is difficult and expensive. It all depends what you want, but all I am pointing out is that it is difficult to change your mind.

[Sazerac]

Both Hunter and Attalus have valid comments. I agree with Hunter (and have said so a couple of times in the thread) that tattoos are fairly accepted in our culture nowadays, save in the most conservative positions. Heck, our administrative assistant, second only to our director where I work, sports an ankle tattoo that can be clearly seen and no one gives her any flack about it. (This is at a vocational-technical skills-training college.) So the idea that a person can't find work because of a tattoo or body piercings is ludicrous. "Come out of the Fifties" is what I'd say about that.

However, Attalus is equally correct that sometimes people make decisions when they are younger that may affect them considerably later on, especially things that more or less permanently alter the body, such as tattoos, body piercings, etc. I happen to know a tattoo artist in Dallas, by the pseudonym of "Tigger." He's one of the most respected artists there is in the city. He also maintains ethics and standards, and will not tattoo anyone A) under 18 years of age, B) who is under the influence of mind-altering substances, including alcohol, and C) without having an extensive interview session with them, making sure they are positive this is what they want to do. He also refuses to tattoo names on a person, for obvious reasons. (I think he makes an exception if the name is "Mom". ) Likewise, he refuses to tattoo certain areas of the body (like the face, the neck, the soles of the feet, etc.) You would think with all these stipulations that he wouldn't have any business, hm? The guy has a waiting list. He's that good.

The problem with tattoo removal is that you can never really fully remove it. Some trace always remains, whether a faint shadow or a whitened scar (depending on the method). That's why Tigger won't tattoo certain areas.

Deciding to get a tattoo should be as involved as purchasing an expensive piece of art; even more so. Even with the most costly piece of art, you can sell it if you get tired of it. You can't do that with tattoo.

-Sazerac

[ 09-04-2002, 09:47 PM: Message edited by: Sazerac ]

[The Hierophant]

Hey man, Black's a practical colour if anything. Absorbs all that sunlight and keeps you toasty warm [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 09-04-2002, 10:10 PM: Message edited by: The Hierophant ]

[Jeffi0]

Which isn't so good in 30 degree weather. Plus, I'll bet those big trenchcoats they wear doesn't help them cool off, either...

As to if Goth is a religion, I don't think it is. More of a fanaticism. There are a LOT of goths at my high school, which is odd, because I would have thought they'd go to a public school not catholic.