It's not the Music!!

[Yorick]

Originally posted by trux: That's exactly my point. It doesn't matter what music people listen to. If the impulse is in them to commit murder or whatever other crime, they're gonna find a way/reason to do it. A Clockwork Orange is a perfect example of this. Alex is a brutally violent young teen. The murderous nature is in him. The music he enjoys happens to turn him on, but Beethoven never told him to kill/rape/brutalize the many people he does in the book/movie. And, Yorick...you wouldn't get much - $5.00 and a half pack of cigarettes.

Thanks mate

I don't think I need to remind you that A Clockwork Orange is Art. The issue is not that the fictional character listened to Beethoven, but that the ensuing behaviour is viewed by many possibly unstable people. It is his behaviour shown in the film that is the problem, not the fact that he is listening to anything.

Comprende?



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I am the walrus!.... er, no hang on....

A fair dinkum laughing Hyena!

[trux]

Comprende indeed.

So would we blame Anthony Burgess or Stanley Kubrick if someone wanted to be like Alex and kill someone?

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a bunch of long hairs.
trux

[trux]

The answer (by the way,) is...no.

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a bunch of long hairs.
trux

[Lord of Alcohol]

I put an Iron Maiden cd on BEFORE I started this thread. Funny but I dont have the slightest desire to go on a rampage, I'm so disappointed This "blame anything but me" society is getting ridiculous. Unfortunately there doesnt seem to be an end to it.

[Yorick]

Originally posted by trux: Comprende indeed. So would we blame Anthony Burgess or Stanley Kubrick if someone wanted to be like Alex and kill someone?

You're missing the point. The individual is still culpable, but Kubrick, Burgess, the execs that funded it and the public that paid to see it are all to "blame". Blame is not singular, there is no black and white where if one is to blame the other is scott free. Blame does not always imply total rsponsiblity.

Look at it like this. If a loopy nut decides to imitate the film, picture it like a luny standing on a wall smashing a window with a bat. Various people made the bricks, others put them together to build the wall, and others gave him the bat, while others told him the windowl was responsible for his loopyness. So he goes, climbs the wall and smashes the window with the bat. Without the bricks, bat or suggestion the event could not have occured, so all are to "blame". The loopy nut still, of his own volition decides to grab the bat, listen and obey the suggestion, climb the wall and smash the window. Four actions of his own volition. Of course he is responsible, but is SUPPORTED and AIDED by many others.

Why be black and white about it? Why start diminishing more responsibliity? Who was it that said America was the society of diminished responsiblity? It starts on an individual level, manifests in a communal level, and gives birth to the ludicrous "defenses" we are disussing.

I buy tickets to see violent movies, I play computer games that glorify violence, I have purchased aggressive music that make driving at excessive speeds enjoyable. My dollars contribute to the cyclic glorification of violence prevalent in western society. Taking on this "blame" empowers me to do something. It means I can excercise concious choice to balance my actions.

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I am the walrus!.... er, no hang on....

A fair dinkum laughing Hyena!

[nick1979]

Yorick wow! Great explination. I never really looked at it that way. Thanks

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[trux]

I can't agree with you on that Yorick, but it's all good because we don't have to agree.

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a bunch of long hairs.
trux

I'll sit here and argue that some sport's glorify and promote agression and violent behavior. I'll also argue ( with myself) that these same sports (and others) are a healthy release of the naturally occuring violent tendencies that people have.
Deny them as you will ( repression) or embrace- play a video game and let it out. Turn up metallica or beethoven or what ever and let the music take it away. Healthy release without harm to self or others is the key theme here. Ritual combat was a common form of dispute settlement in some older cultures, arranged fighting prevented war, murder ect. So screw the blamers, they are just in it for the $$$, or due to a lack of self-knowledge and responsibilty. They shall get what they deserve anyway.

[Yorick]

Originally posted by trux: I can't agree with you on that Yorick, but it's all good because we don't have to agree.

No we don't, but as long as the majority think like you, nothing will change. Ever hear the saying, if you want to change the world you've got to first change yourself. What are you doing? Avoiding responsibility, passing on any blame. What are the accused doing? Avoiding responsibility, passing on any blame. You don't see the connection?

Hey Nick! No worries mate. Thanks


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I am the walrus!.... er, no hang on....

A fair dinkum laughing Hyena!

[trux]

I do see the connection but I think it's a little absurd. By the way you explain the bat and the window situation every human being on the planet is to blame for murder, rape, etc. in some way, and not only do I not believe that, I flat out laugh at that. If you're right about that scenario, we'd all have to live in a vacuum of space and thought to affect any sort of change. Is that what we should do?

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a bunch of long hairs.
trux