Antarctic Ice Shelf Collapses

[Ziroc]

Wanna see what global warming is doing?

http://www.nsidc.org/iceshelves/lars...animation.html

Click on the animation of the satellite images of Larsen B breaking up.. totally scary.

[Jorath Calar]

Ugh, yes it is scary, I read in a magazine that in less than 50 years New Orleans would be on the bottom of the ocean... a modern day Atlantis.

[Redblueflare]

Wait a second! I thought we were doing something about global warming. Weren't we using less CFC's? I don't really remember...

[Yorick]

It's difficult to know how much we've caused and how much is part of longer term global 'seasons'. We've been recording temperatures for what? 150 years, and then freak if we get the hottest day ever.

Well ever recorded.

The world was warmer than it is now 1000 years ago I believe. Plus of course there was the colder Ice age of course.

We as humans are adaptable. Citys have disappeared in history before. Disappeared under volcano or earthquake, tsunami or hurricane. Or war.

Why should we feel invulnerable, impervious to change now?
Things change. Constancy in motion is a part of life.

Rather than be scared about the ocean rising (it won't rise much, but that rise will swamp a number of coastal cities) let's also look at the other scenarios.

Look at how much land is unusable becasue of cold.

Would not a warmth increase make that land more usable? More habitable? Yes the living areas of humanity may shift, but that would not be the first time.

Australia once had an inland sea. Fish fossils have been found in the desert. Vast, dry salt lakes exist where water once was.

However, that said, IF we have caused this problem, then that's a sad sad situation. Regardless, the movements to reduce greenhouse gasses are very very important, and should be excercised immediately and increasingly. Australia MUST reduce coal burning. America MUST reduce emmissions.
"The American way of life is not negotiable" Bush said during Kyto. Ignorant, blind MORON. The American way of life WILL CHANGE one way or another. That is the part that's not negotiable.

I don't understand for example why SUVs are owned in such vast numbers, often driven by ONE person in a city.
Gas/Petroleum is a limited resource, and those things drink a lot of gas. Nowhere else I've been has so many cars that large.

Now. on a different tack, I often hear fellow environmentalist bemoan humans destroying the ecological balance. "The Matrix" film made the famous analogy of humans to viruses.

But here's something. Are we not part of that ecosystem? Destructive, consumptive or not, at our most irresponsible we are as much part of the system as bacteria, or mould, or another parasite. Desructive? Foolish? Yes. Unnatural? I don't think so.

Fortunately, unlike other species we have a choice as to what our role in the ecosystem is.

Unfortuanately all the so called "cultures of the earth" - subsistence based cultures respecting the balance of nature - were wiped out or crushed by the growth obsessed City cultures.

I just wonder when societies will understand growth occurs at the expense of something else, not in a vacuum.

If you open a fast food chain franchise, it will draw market away from an existing business.

SUBSISTENCE is the key. Balance. Living to sustain existence, not living to accumulate, aquire and grow limitlessly.

"How much is enough?" Is the question.

The USA has banned CFC's (for almost 20 years) but not all those Kyoto accord countries have..some of them still use them extensively.

I don't know anyone who says there is no global warming, what I do know is that there is no where near conclusive evidence that it has anything to do with anything Man is doing. We may contribute a small pittance to this phenomona but it is just as likely that we are undergoing the normal cyclical temperature variences for this planet. In the past it has been far far warmer than it is currently (the Artic used to be a lush grassy plain supposedly) and it has been far colder as well.

There is currently a theory that Ocean Salinity decreases on a regular cycle (caused by among other things melting polar ice) triggers the regular cycle of ice ages. Of course its only a theory...but it is as valid as the theory that man is changing the global climate.

Originally posted by Jorath Calar: Ugh, yes it is scary, I read in a magazine that in less than 50 years New Orleans would be on the bottom of the ocean... a modern day Atlantis.

Actually in 1978 We were told by ecologists that New Orleans and parts of Florida would be under water by the year 2000.....last I checked it is just so much alarmism to gain attention and cash donations. Oh and we still have as much rain forest as there was 12,000 years ago...it was supposed to be gone in 1999.

My point here is not to suggest we not try to be environmentally sound...What I want to suggest is that we approach the issues with sound scientific methodology and not media centric extremeism.

Scientists were shocked when they found a "hole" in the Ozone layer and immediately suggested it was mans fault. The fact is, they detected the hole because it became possible to do that science, the hole quite probably has been there all along.

If anyone is worried that our cars and SUV's are poluting the atmosphere...stop worrying, according to the scientists we will be out of oil in 30 years. (of course they said that 30 years ago too....)

Don't let the media hype spook you.

Good post Yorik, but about your comments on the "earth friendly" cultures having been wiped out by the the city cultures. Id like to point out, that our life span is now twice what it was living in those eco-friendly commuities, people now in general don't have to worry about being completely wiped out by just one single bad growing season. We don't have to worry about loosing whole populations to one bad winter. All in all civilization has been of supreme benefit to man as a species.

[Alexander]

Well, I guess we will just have to wait until all our cities are flooded, we run out of gas, and the planet heats up to 100 degrees Fahrenheit before the Republicans and conservatives finally admit that we should pay attention to the environment and not let big businesses get in the way.

This planet gives us life, and in return we destroy and rape it. And many people in my country don't think twice about it.

[Azred]

Yorick et alii are correct--we are on the downhill slide towards the next ice age. On the plus side this will eventually counteract any effects of "global warming" (a modern day "Emporer's New Clothes" if I ever heard one); on the minus side the more severe cooling is centuries away. Soil cores prove conclusively that climate is a cyclic process (what isn't?) that changes places like the Sahara from lush grasslands into desert and back again. The fact that pieces of the ice shelves in the Antarctic fall off is just part of the process.

off-topic: I once heard someone's theory that Antlantis (for lack of a better name) was actually located on the unfrozen continent of Antarctica.

re: SUVs. SUVs are owned for status. "I have the biggest, baddest, and coolest vehicle on the road!" Whatever.

Many of the "cultures of the earth", primitive hunters/planters that they were, practiced ritual animal and/or human sacrifice. Make of that what you will. [img]graemlins/blueblink.gif[/img]

If the climate did warm up and shift the temperate region correctly, Canada would most likely become the largest food-producer in the world.

Ocean salinity governs the ability of the water to hold thermal energy. Salty water holds heat longer than fresh water in the same way that putting sugar/creamer in your coffee helps it stay warm longer. Conversely, fresh water heats up faster than salty water; as an ice shelf melts the fresh water can heat up, thus speeding up the melting of the shelf. The only ones who really have to worry about this are the species of marine life who cannot survive in fresh water.

Wow. I really bounced around all over the place today.

[Silver Cheetah]

Originally posted by MagiK: Oh and we still have as much rain forest as there was 12,000 years ago...it was supposed to be gone in 1999. If anyone is worried that our cars and SUV's are poluting the atmosphere...stop worrying, according to the scientists we will be out of oil in 30 years. (of course they said that 30 years ago too....) Don't let the media hype spook you.

Yo MagiK dude..... can I have the source for your rainforest statement there please? I'd just love to get a handle on the whole argument... from your viewpoint.

On the 'out of oil' front - the figures from the oil companies themselves are not 30 years, but 45 years. However, the effects of a diminishing oil supply will of course be noticeable well before that. Countries holding other countries to 'ransom' etc.

Oh well, it all makes for an interesting life!! May you live in interesting times, wasn't that the only chinese curse? Well, we certainly do.