Priest-heavy parties (expect spoilers)

[Stratos]

I follow this thread with interest. Perhaps my solo Bard can pick up a tip or two.

I'm currently at DE lv. 5 myself and just picket up the Messager of Sseth, and believe me, it truly sends a message.

[Aerich]

The Yuxonomei fight was a bit frustrating. It took me four tries. Long post ahead.

#1.
I took Spiff's suggestion of invisibility potions. First attempt, I summoned undead to the limit, cast all my buffs, then sent the T/C to start the dialogue and go invisible via potion. The Mirror Imaged F/M, armed with Dimension Door for a quick getaway, came along to toss a fireball and shoot arrows at the big Y. He also had Ghost Armor and Shield on, from the wand. Well and good. T/C goes invisible, F/M casts fireball, undead engage the three yuan-ti mages that appear out of nowhere. Then Y casts dispel, and my F/M loses his buffs and images, and gets nearly taken out by archers and magic missile before he can DD away. He gets followed by Y's undead summons, and dies before he has an opportunity to retreat again. Reload.

#2.
T/C goes invisible, gets slightly off track coming out of the doorway, steps on a trap. I forgot to give him antidotes to carry, and the other characters were behind a nasty set trap of 3 Spike Growth and 4 Glyphs. I reloaded before he died.

#3. Set up the trap again at the doorway leading into the compartment that contains Y's door. This time, I had the druid and T/C on the other side. Yes, I decided to use the dreaded Static Charge/Invisibility combo. I had summoned undead on that side as well., with a fire elemental in the doorway and the trap right behind the elemental. It worked fine at first; T/C went invisible, undead engaged the mages, mages died from Static Charge. Then the elemental moved forward, and the door locked shut, leaving my other four characters on the other side, including my three fighter multiclasses. I thought, fine, wait for the Static Charge to take out Y's support (it did), then open the door. The door won't open, even though the character trying to open it had the key. Maybe because Y was on the other side, butting her head against it. She's immune to electricity, btw. I wasn't going to try and take her out with a T/C and a druid, so I reloaded.

#4.
I rethought my strategy because that door shuts and locks. I decided to try it from the upper set of rooms instead. Cast all my Static Charges, summoned wolves, cast most of my buffs, put druid and T/C out front with invisibility potions again. Had the other four characters (C, F/M, F/C and F/D) out of sight.

Again, T/C started dialogue and disappeared, as did the druid. Y took a little while to show, so my static charges and wolves took out the mages, with a little help from missiles shot through the doorway by my main grouping. Wolves were starting to get taken out by archers, so I summoned some dire wolves as well. Moved the F/C and F/M so I could see Y. She was occupied, so cast Recitation with the F/C and Slow with the F/M.

The yuan-ti finished up all the wolves and came for me. F/C blocked Y in the doorway, F/M cast Web to slow the others down, F/D cast Spike Growth, Cleric cast Defensive Harmony. Druid dispelled her invisibility by casting Spike Stones, was shot a couple times, and drank another invisibility potion. T/C had retreated to the main grouping. He and the cleric cast Magical Stone, the F/M cast Haste then Chromatic Orb (Y saved), and the F/D cast a sunscorch (but Y is immune to sunscorch - whoops!). F/D switched to Alicorn Lance, clerics continued on with MS. F/M brought out the bow again. F/C was hurt badly, despite the -15 AC, so he broke off combat and ran to the left. Y was Slowed, thankfully, so she couldn't catch him, and took some spell-hits while trying to do so. She stopped pursuing and went back after my main party. She got to my dual-class T/C (who has the fewest HP) and took off 3/5 of his HP with one swipe. I had him run away, while the F/M made use of his Mirror Image and engaged her in close combat with the Defender axe. Y has been hit with about 7 Magical Stones and four Alicorn Lances by this point, plus a few other things. F/C healed himself up a bit and returned to cast Prayer. The F/M got in two critical hits in succession, and Y fell.

I sat there breathing heavily for a couple minutes until the last yuan-ti (Webbed and taking hits from Spike Stones, Spike Growth, and Static Charge) went down.

Now for a bit of travelling. No picklock skills and those chests are quite impervious to bashing, so I had to go downstairs and rest up to memorize Knock. Came back up (avoiding and/or stepping on traps all the way), and Knocked all the spell-trapped chests. Took an electricity-blocking potion and opened them. Went back downstairs to memorize more Knock. Got all the stuff, and will go back to Kuldahar in my next session.

[Aerich]

Now I'm well into the Severed Hand, currently on the third floor. I carelessly omitted to buy more missiles from Conlan, so I'm a bit short. I've compensated by giving all the remaining sling stones to the fighter multis, as they have the best chance to hit. The F/M has some arrows, but also the throwing axe, so he's ok.

Summons, summons, and more summons. One decoy, typically the Mirror-Imaged, Dimension Door-capable F/M, to spring the ambushes. Deadly spells abound. I've got two priests who have dedicated the majority of their first level slots to Magical Stone, which does double damage to undead. Sunscorch for druids is also very effective. In largish fights (the horde of shadow worgs, for example), it's not uncommon for every character to cast 3-4 spells in a row, while the summons tank and are replaced as they fall. [img]graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Unfortunately, Protection from Normal Missiles does not seem to be working here. I've been hit several times for big damage by shadowed goblin archers. Is that because their arrows are shadowed and not "normal?" Strange, because I seem to recall it's worked fine before.

[NobleNick]

Aerich,

This thread has been a very interesting read.

So, you've got:

Druid
MC Fighter/Druid
DC Thief[8]/Cleric
MC Fighter/Cleric
DC Cleric[14]/Necromancer
DC Fighter[9]/Mage

Well, first off, I'm not man enough to do this on Insane, so you are way ahead of me. I will gladly comment since you have invited me (in another thread) to do so; but please take the following as my musings, and not as instruction to you. I assume that you want to go IWD Insane and take the party into HoW and TotLM; so you've got lots of expo and a long game in which to enjoy your developed characters.

DC characters containing Cleric or Druid can not use edged weapons.

I would DC the Thief at 12 or higher, so that he really can function as a Thief in the later game. I would change the MC F/D and F/C to DC F[9+]/D and DC F[9+]/C . That allows you to stack proficiency points, and reap the full benefit of the extra HP a Fighter gets. Unfortunately, this also makes everyone human; so I'd change the DC Cleric/Necro to an MC Cleric/Mage. (Pick a race with infravision.) IIRC, you can't get a specialist Necro in an MC package. To keep your Necro, you could just make your DC F[9]/Mage into a DC F[9]/Necro.

Working from scratch, a priest-heavy mix that looks viable and fun to me is:

Paladin
DC Fighter[9]/Druid
DC Druid[13]/Fighter
DC Fighter[12]/Cleric
MC (race with infravision) Cleric/Thief
H-Elf Bard

The Pally is a priestly warrior, the Bard can do a bit of everything, and the other characters contain Druid or Cleric; so every one of these characters can claim some connection to priest.

Weaknesses:

1.) Pally is the only character that can use edged weapons or bow.

2.) Very low mage power in the beginning, and low reliance on mage power throughout the game.

3.) A little low on pure Cleric power at the beginning.

Both 1. and 2. could be ameliorated by trading in the DC D[13]/F for a DC F[13]/Mage

Strengths:

1.) With four big guns and a Bard, this party rocks the house, physically, for the entire game. The Bard's War Chant kicks in about the time your DC characters start to transition, keeping your party viable, physically, during this phase of the game.

2.) LOTS of Priest power in the mid to late game.

3.) Party contains the raw material for the ultimate tank: A Paladin.

--------------------
What's a party,
without a song?
Bards ROCK!
Party On!!

[Aerich]

Yeah, yours looks good, but I'll keep the one I have and not tinker with it. My concept was to have priest spells throughout the game, not make a super party - this one probably won't be going into the HoF, unless I import a couple into a more melee heavy party. The Cleric[14]/Necro comes to mind.

And strangely enough, you can d/c into a specialty mage in IWD. That's not allowed in tabletop games, but it works here. I actually checked it in a previous game, so as not to screw myself over.

Actually, the T/C is thief[11]/cleric[8], at the moment. I decided his skills weren't good enough when I originally went to dual him. I also bought the Girdle of Gond from Orrick, so my thief skills should be pretty well maxed when I regain them. I should note that the F/M is a half-elf multi, not a dual class.

Pretty much the only weakness of the current party is weapon selection. Don't get me wrong, I'm not hurting for good weapons. The druid spell Moonblade was awesome in the early game, and I've managed to pick up or buy some good stuff I can use. However, only the F/M can use swords, axes, bows, and crossbows. That's a liability, as he's so valuable for fighting and for spelling - he's the only mage I have active at the moment.

This party was primarily for the experience and challenge of having enough spells to experiment with. In the past, NobleNick, I've been firmly in your boat; brute melee power and awesome archers, backed up sparingly with mage and clerical spells.

I have another party that has just started (I made it before the priestly party and mothballed it for a while), and it is intended to be my ultimate HoF party. Paladin (check), Bard (check), dual class Fighter/Druid (check), gnomish Fighter/Illusionist, half-elf Fighter/Thief, and (I think) a d/c Fighter/Cleric. Much more conventionally strong, you'll agree. Two M/Cs, of course, but that shouldn't be a problem. This party has 5 good tanks with good missile and spell support, and three of the tanks (Paladin, Fighter[13?]/Druid, and Fighter/Illusionist) can be very strong indeed. This party is still in the Vale of Shadows, but it was ridiculously easy up to that point, even on insane. The only worry is healing power in the early game.

[NobleNick]

Originally posted by Aerich: I have another party that has just started (I made it before the priestly party and mothballed it for a while), and it is intended to be my ultimate HoF party. Paladin (check), Bard (check), dual class Fighter/Druid (check), gnomish Fighter/Illusionist, half-elf Fighter/Thief, and (I think) a d/c Fighter/Cleric. Much more conventionally strong, you'll agree. Two M/Cs, of course, but that shouldn't be a problem. This party has 5 good tanks with good missile and spell support, and three of the tanks (Paladin, Fighter[13?]/Druid, and Fighter/Illusionist) can be very strong indeed. This party is still in the Vale of Shadows, but it was ridiculously easy up to that point, even on insane. The only worry is healing power in the early game.

Aerich,

Yes, I agree: Nice, stout, in-your-face party. (FIVE "fighters" AND a Bard!! ~salivating~)

And I think I understand what you are trying to do with the priest party: see if "Priest power" is an adequate substitute for brute force techniques. When I was a newbie I thought clerics were next to useless, and that brute force backed by heavy magic was the ultimate combo. I have mellowed on that position quite a lot, and would much rather supplement a party with two priests and a mage than the other way around. I will continiue to observe your experiment with high interest...
--------------------
What's a party,
without a song?
Bards ROCK!
Party On!!


[ 08-27-2004, 03:28 PM: Message edited by: NobleNick ]

[Aerich]

Aye, yes. I really wanted to experiment. With one cleric (or druid) in a party, I focused on a couple spells per level; those that were most beneficial for a party. For instance, always went with Protection from Fire, Animate Dead, and Prayer for third level spells. Healing spells took up the majority of slots. Druids never lived up to their full potential, because Heal was more important than Fire Seeds or Whirlwind. No variety, no experiments, less fun.

I should have some gaming time this weekend, and I'd love to get through most of the Severed Hand. I'll update sometime early next week. I also have next week off, so gaming fun awaits.

[Aerich]

It's been a loooong time since I've taken a good, solid chunk of time for this party - actually first time I've touched it in a while.

Finished off the Severed Hand tonight. No problems. Web works on shadowed monsters. I have an absolute boatload of priestly spells. I pick a good selection, then change up strategy depending on the spells I have left. Archers gave me less trouble than they ever have before - probably because I have more summons available than ever before. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Undead are peanuts to this party. Three clerics and two druids just cut them apart. I used turn undead once just for kicks. One tank keeps them occupied, while the F/M takes out opposing ranged attackers (which are always being harassed by summons) and druids chip in with Sunscorch/Alicorn Lance/Sol's Searing Orb/Moonblade besides the summons. Clerics with Magical Stone and Spiritual Hammer to finish it off.

Here's how the party stacks up so far:
1) lvl 9/9 Fighter/Cleric - dwarven, good. Party lead, and a good one. My primary tank, and one of the best I've ever had. Has -11 AC without spells, can push -20 with spells. Can also cast Shield of Lathander, which rules. Using a +2 warhammer that does 1 point of electrical damage on every hit; good for spell disruption. Spells are cast before and after fights, not during. Mostly memorizes protective or healing spells. Has Boots of the Fox to run down ranged attackers/spellcasters, otherwise using the FA ring.

2) lvl 10 Cleric. Human, evil, will dual to necromancer at lvl 13 or 14. Effective, and getting stronger and cooler by the minute. Set up as an offensive caster.

3) lvl 9/11 Fighter/Druid. Multiclass. Killer spells, fantastic in melee with Moonblade, but doesn't have the AC or HP to be party lead. Great all-round secondary.

4) lvl 12 Druid. Can cast spells all day or shapechange for secondary tanking action. Took out Bladed skeletons all by her lonesome with Sol's Searing Orb, and can cast 8 Sunscorches per day.

5) lvl 9/10 Fighter/Mage. Multiclass. Invaluable character for this party - only mage caster right now, and only character who can use axes, swords, and bows. Hardly goes into melee, (notable exception against Yuxonomei) but a powerhouse ranged character. Uses 90% of second lvl slots for Web.

6) lvl 11/9 Thief/Cleric. Dual class. Starting to round into shape. Will eventually be the dominant cleric.

[ 10-16-2004, 02:42 AM: Message edited by: Aerich ]

[NobleNick]

2) lvl 10 Cleric. Human, evil, will dual to necromancer at lvl 13 or 14. Effective, and getting stronger and cooler by the minute. Set up as an offensive caster.

Aerich,

Very cool DC character. Maybe this guy and a DC good_cleric/Illusionist would make a nice "good cop, bad cop" tag team.

--------------------
What's a party,
without a song?
Bards ROCK!
Party On!!

[Aerich]

True. I can't wait to dual this guy over and give him all the cool necromancy spells I've been saving. At the rate I'm going, he should be ready before I go to HoW, or shortly thereafter. Only needs about 50 000 to lvl 11 - and I'm in Dorn's, just finished the area with Bandoth's tower.

Should be interesting to see how the party stacks up against a certain type of magic resistant enemy. I'm planning to haste some dire wolves.