The "War" model

[Fljotsdale]

Nachtrafe, I really must commend you on your pleasant, non-aggresive post! It was a pleasure to read.
I agree with a lot of what you say, though not all
I accept that what I want is unlikely to happen. That does not mean to say it is the wrong thing to want, as some have implied (not you).
And I also don't think the world sucks. Some people suck. But I suspect that is what you really meant anyway!? The two principle things wrong with this planet are terrorists of all types and 'profit at all costs' capitalism. They seem to be the causes of much of the distress in the world. There is nice sweeping generalisation for you, lol! I shoulda learned not to do that by now....!!!

------------------




[This message has been edited by Fljotsdale (edited 09-25-2001).]

[Fljotsdale]

Originally posted by Yorick: I beg to differ. The intent may not have been there, but I have pointed out the effect on more than one occasion. [/B]

I know you have, Yorick. No one else has ever accused me of it though. Not that I remember, anyway.

------------------





[This message has been edited by Fljotsdale (edited 09-25-2001).]

[John D Harris]

Nachtrafe,
you're right about the techno. of our missles, and the picking of targets. I have a buddy that worked on the guidance of the Tomahawk cruise missles in the late 80's. At that time we could launch a Tom. from Fulton County stadium (Atlanta, GA) and put it through the up-rights in RFK stadium (Washington D.C.) with greater accuracy, then a field-goal kicker kicking from the 35 yard line.
The weakness is always going to be the "human element".


------------------

Airline ticket to Afghanistan $800
High powered rifle with scope $1000
Hotel room with roof access $100
A clean Head shot on that sack of Horse Manure Usuma Bin Laden PRICELESS!

[Liliara]

Liliara sorrowfully looks on as 10% of the American population sits in a circle, holding hands, singing to Joan Baez songs. Then her gaze falls upon the other 90% and her mood lifts to joy as they hold hands and sing the National Anthem, they know that the cost of freedom is sometimes high.


(Nothing against Joan Baez, I really love SOME of her music)

------------------

Captain of Bouncers, Boogre Bar

LH Member

And you never did think that it ever would happen again, in America did you? And you never did think that we'd ever get together again, but we damn sure fooled ya. We're walkin' real proud and we're talkin' real loud again, in America. And you never did think that it ever would happen again.... (Charlie Daniels)

Originally posted by Liliara: Liliara sorrowfully looks on as 10% of the American population sits in a circle, holding hands, singing to Joan Baez songs. Then her gaze falls upon the other 90% and her mood lifts to joy as they hold hands and sing the National Anthem, they know that the cost of freedom is sometimes high. (Nothing against Joan Baez, I really love SOME of her music)

Yep, Its so unpatriotic to abhor violence. Im over joyyed that more people are gonna die too. Geez Louis!
The cost of freedom is putting up with stereotypes like I just read. Real unifying spirit. great way to celebrate our diverisity of beliefs. good going!

[Liliara]

Originally posted by G'kar: Yep, Its so unpatriotic to abhor violence. Im over joyyed that more people are gonna die too. Geez Louis! The cost of freedom is putting up with stereotypes like I just read. Real unifying spirit. great way to celebrate our diverisity of beliefs. good going!

Hmmm....

Don't know how you could have judged all I meant by that short post (you seem to have read more than my thoughts into it), but I'm happy to see that you are enthusiatic!



------------------

Captain of Bouncers, Boogre Bar

LH Member

And you never did think that it ever would happen again, in America did you? And you never did think that we'd ever get together again, but we damn sure fooled ya. We're walkin' real proud and we're talkin' real loud again, in America. And you never did think that it ever would happen again.... (Charlie Daniels)

[Liliara]

By the way, how do you think that you recieved the right to express what you feel? Wars were fought, brave men and innocent people died. I'm not saying I want the innocent to die. Our government that you seem to have such a distaste for, (although some may be bastards) don't want to see innocents die. But if you are wondering what violence gets, well, in some cases it gets freedom. Whether you want to admit it or not, our freedom has been challenged. If you don't agree, how would you like every phone call that you make recorded? It may well happen if we allow this to go on without violence. We have tried all we can (The U.S, offered Afghanistan aid for their coutry today if they would only hand over bin Laden) and it has failed. All you have today can be attributed to 'violence'. Sorry to break it to ya.

------------------

Captain of Bouncers, Boogre Bar

LH Member

And you never did think that it ever would happen again, in America did you? And you never did think that we'd ever get together again, but we damn sure fooled ya. We're walkin' real proud and we're talkin' real loud again, in America. And you never did think that it ever would happen again.... (Charlie Daniels)

Originally posted by Liliara: By the way, how do you think that you recieved the right to express what you feel? Wars were fought, brave men and innocent people died. I'm not saying I want the innocent to die. Our government that you seem to have such a distaste for, (although some may be bastards) don't want to see innocents die. But if you are wondering what violence gets, well, in some cases it gets freedom. Whether you want to admit it or not, our freedom has been challenged. If you don't agree, how would you like every phone call that you make recorded? It may well happen if we allow this to go on without violence. We have tried all we can (The U.S, offered Afghanistan aid for their coutry today if they would only hand over bin Laden) and it has failed. All you have today can be attributed to 'violence'. Sorry to break it to ya.

ummm I respect your beliefs, but All I have today I attribute to love and to the divine. Violence is one little aspect of human behavior. By the way, the civil rights movement was won by being non-violent. Today I have legislation that protects me from dicrimination thanks to people who chose non-violence. Ralph nader made our cars and other products safe, and didnt do anything violent. I could go on and on. There is always a choice, and I respect your right to believe in one possible course of action, but it ISNT the only one. Express your patriotic joy that we are possibly going to war all you want, but by questioning anyones loves of thier country because they can see other solutions, you only show how narrow-minded you really are. Yes thats harsh, but sometimes the truth is.

And if you think I have distaste for the basic ideals of our goverment, you are WRONG! VERY VERY Wrong. I just dont hafta flout my love for life,liberty, and the pursuit of happiness around for everyone to see, its safe and sound in my HEART where it belongs. One of those ideals, written into the basic foundation of law is the right to petition greivances against the goverment. I will and I do.

Sure violence happens, has happened and will happen. Good has come from it in some circumstances like you pointed out, bad in more. Given a choice, I'll take non-violence.

I know you have no respect for my beliefs, thats obvious, and I wont lose sleep over it, but I will stand up to the ignorant stereotype that because one is a consciencous objector thats means one is not really patriotic, or one doesnt really love their country because it is incorrect.

The current situation is only two weeks old...how could we have tried all our options in such a short span of time? The investigation continues. Whatever the outcome, we are all in it together.

[This message has been edited by G'kar (edited 09-26-2001).]

[Nachtrafe]

Originally posted by Liliara: Liliara sorrowfully looks on as 10% of the American population sits in a circle, holding hands, singing to Joan Baez songs. Then her gaze falls upon the other 90% and her mood lifts to joy as they hold hands and sing the National Anthem, they know that the cost of freedom is sometimes high. (Nothing against Joan Baez, I really love SOME of her music)

I sincerely hope this wasn't pointed anywhere near me. I hate Joan Baez! HEHEHEHE

------------------
"In Memorium of those who are gone, and all those that bought our freedom with their hearts blood!"

"May the Colors of Liberty never run"

[Liliara]

Originally posted by Nachtrafe: I sincerely hope this wasn't pointed anywhere near me. I hate Joan Baez! HEHEHEHE

NACHTRAFE!!!!!!! Hey you!!!!!!

Not at all darlin'! LOL



------------------

Captain of Bouncers, Boogre Bar

LH Member

And you never did think that it ever would happen again, in America did you? And you never did think that we'd ever get together again, but we damn sure fooled ya. We're walkin' real proud and we're talkin' real loud again, in America. And you never did think that it ever would happen again.... (Charlie Daniels)