They are out there! Somewhere!

[Gangrell]

Originally posted by Vaskez: Hmm yeah I guess that TO A DEGREE aliens could withstand different conditions but as I said earlier, everything is still made up of the same basic elements having to obey the same chemical and physical processes (even if their biology varies) thus their required living conditions can't be all that different.

That doesn't mean a thing Vaskez. Science in itself and all knowledge of it is still restricted just to this planet, physically and geographically speaking. We may have knowledge of Venus, Pluto (if it is a planet), Mars and so forth but the fact remains we still don't know enough to say there is no life elsewhere, or the dependant variables that affect it. That's just my 2 cents on it anyway.

[ 01-13-2004, 04:31 PM: Message edited by: Gangrell ]

I strongly believe that there is other life. Has anyone heard of the Roswell crash? The US Government said it didn't happen. Yeah, and Jean Chretien didn't pepper spray anyone!

[Xen]

I did. Something did happen there but the goverment tried to cover it. Heck like the X-Files. I recall a TV show on Disovery that was very interesting. Oh and what about the Area-51?

[Rokenn]

Originally posted by Gangrell: That doesn't mean a thing Vaskez. Science in itself and all knowledge of it is still restricted just to this planet, physically and geographically speaking. We may have knowledge of Venus, Pluto (if it is a planet), Mars and so forth but the fact remains we still don't know enough to say there is no life elsewhere, or the dependant variables that affect it. That's just my 2 cents on it anyway.

Agree completely. Especially given the fact that just in the last few months they have found the vast majority of the universe is made of matter and energy which we know absolutley nothing about, Dark Energy and Dark Matter. By current estimate the universe is 4% ordinary visible matter, 23% hidden dark matter, and 73% dark energy. So we still have a great deal to learn about the Universe.

[Aelia Jusa]

Originally posted by Gangrell: And like I said, I doubt there isn't life on other planets, ignorant or intelligent, otherwise the universe would be an incredible waste of space.

That's of course assuming that the universe is there for a reason. Something can only be a waste if something 'better' should be there. If we're all just here by pure luck that all the right things happened to occur for us to be possible, then there's no reason there should be life anywhere else. It's like if you look at the desert and say, well that's a waste of space, it could be a lovely rainforest or something that would be worthwhile - only to the eyes of someone who happens to value rainforests. If the universe just is, then there's no waste of space, just space [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Vaskez]

Originally posted by Gangrell: quote: Originally posted by Vaskez: Hmm yeah I guess that TO A DEGREE aliens could withstand different conditions but as I said earlier, everything is still made up of the same basic elements having to obey the same chemical and physical processes (even if their biology varies) thus their required living conditions can't be all that different.

That doesn't mean a thing Vaskez. Science in itself and all knowledge of it is still restricted just to this planet, physically and geographically speaking. We may have knowledge of Venus, Pluto (if it is a planet), Mars and so forth but the fact remains we still don't know enough to say there is no life elsewhere, or the dependant variables that affect it. That's just my 2 cents on it anyway. [/QUOTE]What's your point? You haven't disagreed with anything I've said, my long post earlier demonstrated that we don't know enough about the variables and that's what you're saying too. However what we do know pretty sure is what elements make up different types of stars and planets and what percentage these elements are found in - that's all I'm saying. Sure, there could be sections of the universe that aren't made up of hydrogen, helium, iron etc. but by completely unknown elements in a completely different physical world but we were just talking about our physical universe - the part created from the big bang which consists of the visible matter which consists of the elements that we know.

Anyway, if we are talking about things outside this universe size - who knows? Since I can't comprehend any way for the universe to end (in space/size) I have to assume it's infinite - although I doubt the spread of physical matter is infinite - there is probably a boundary beyond which you won't find any hydrogen etc. atoms. I'm restricting my arguments to within the physical space that is governed by einstein's and newton's laws otherwise you can blow this game open any way you want and there's no point discussing it

[Vaskez]

Originally posted by Aelia Jusa: quote: Originally posted by Gangrell: And like I said, I doubt there isn't life on other planets, ignorant or intelligent, otherwise the universe would be an incredible waste of space.

That's of course assuming that the universe is there for a reason. Something can only be a waste if something 'better' should be there. If we're all just here by pure luck that all the right things happened to occur for us to be possible, then there's no reason there should be life anywhere else. It's like if you look at the desert and say, well that's a waste of space, it could be a lovely rainforest or something that would be worthwhile - only to the eyes of someone who happens to value rainforests. If the universe just is, then there's no waste of space, just space [img]smile.gif[/img] [/QUOTE]Haha! good point it does sound like some people are saying that there has to be life in all that space simply because otherwise it hurts their sense of efficiency

If you take the view of some modern religions, we are special and unique and were created that way - this is supported by the pessimistic application of the Drake equation (the part about being unique) as well as much other logic.

[ 01-13-2004, 06:16 PM: Message edited by: Vaskez ]

[Gab]

I really believe there is. Like Gangrell said, If there isn't the universe would be an incredible waste of space. We know of only 8 planet. There are millions (if not billions) of planets in the universe. At least a few should be able to support life like Earth.

[Jerome]

The question of whether there is or is not intelligent life out there is completely arbitrary, and is as much a matter of faith as any religion is.

If you're asking, does the probability exist, then the answer is most definately yes. The reasons for the probability being so low are the conditions set up for cellular life to exist, as Vaskez posted previously. The essential truth of the matter is, however, no one knows, nor can know for a great many years to come. Just given the time needed for a single radio message to be transmitted (even at light speed, the physical limit in this universe for anything)it could take literally hundrerds, if not thousands of years to reach any kind of civillisation with the technology to recieve, process and send a return signal, and then the same amount of time for the return journey.

Ditto with the ideas behind UFO's already having visited us. The amount of time, resources and technology that would permit a vehicle to travel the cast interstellar distances to reach us (and we'll ignore all the socialogical problems which could be attached to any race's society undertaking such endevours) would be phenomenal - especially if their only purpose was the probing of attention-hungry people who seem to be abducted on a regular basis.

But perhaps i'm being to pessimistic. Do I believe there's intelligent life out there? I admit the probability exists, but I see no reason to acknowledge any kind of life out there. In any case, to my mind, there's no evidence or circumstancial facts to debate over, and while it's an amusing topic for speculation... in the end, it's down to belief and little more.

[Gangrell]

Originally posted by Rokenn: quote: Originally posted by Gangrell: That doesn't mean a thing Vaskez. Science in itself and all knowledge of it is still restricted just to this planet, physically and geographically speaking. We may have knowledge of Venus, Pluto (if it is a planet), Mars and so forth but the fact remains we still don't know enough to say there is no life elsewhere, or the dependant variables that affect it. That's just my 2 cents on it anyway.

Agree completely. Especially given the fact that just in the last few months they have found the vast majority of the universe is made of matter and energy which we know absolutley nothing about, Dark Energy and Dark Matter. By current estimate the universe is 4% ordinary visible matter, 23% hidden dark matter, and 73% dark energy. So we still have a great deal to learn about the Universe. [/QUOTE]Yes, I've heard of this myself. Dark Matter is the, well matter, that is supposed to make galaxies push and pull towards each other. It's very hard to detect and most researchers haven't been able to find it until just about 8 months ago I think. I'm glad, honestly, that scientists have discovered why the galaxies move as they do, but it really does astound me that the only explanation they could find to explain universal movement .. was a 'bang'