Is there really life after death?

[Silver Cheetah]

Originally posted by Fljotsdale: Sheesh! Guess I'll just have to take it like a (wo)man!

Cheetah grips tongue firmly between teeth to avoid voicing the very obvious response that she is just DYING to make to Fljotsdale's rejoinder here....



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Most Ecstatic and Exotic Mistress of the Illuminati

The problem with Christian Bible is that all the various parts cancel themselves out. The bible can support many different points of view at the same time, due to vagueness and Direct Contradiction and since almost all Christian teaching come from the bible it makes it pretty useless. The bible has been used for hundreds of years to persecute people. If you look at history the most popular use of the bible and associated teachings has been to oppress and control people. Any modern interpretation of the bible surely overlooks that for hundreds of years the very same words have been often used to justify the most heinous of deeds. Indeed many Christians from hundreds of years ago could have fully supported their arguments for burning people suspected of being a witch at the steak with quotes from the bible and assocaited christian teachings.



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In nomine Imperatis, guard our armour and our gaze; lubricate our projectile weapons that they do not jam. Bless and brighten the beams of our lasers; fiat lux in tenebris.

[Diogenes Of Pumpkintown]

Originally posted by Dramnek_Ulk: suspected of being a witch at the steak

Hmmm . . . an interesting visual image. I suppose the steak would be well done?

[Silver Cheetah]

Originally posted by Dramnek_Ulk: The problem with Christian Bible is that all the various parts cancel themselves out. The bible can support many different points of view at the same time, due to vagueness and Direct Contradiction and since almost all Christian teaching come from the bible it makes it pretty useless.

I don't think you could accuse it of either consistency or coherency! (Makes it very good for supporting your point of view though - bit like pix n'mix - just choose the bits that do the job!)


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Most Ecstatic and Exotic Mistress of the Illuminati

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Dramnek_Ulk: The problem with Christian Bible is that all the various parts cancel themselves out. The bible can support many different points of view at the same time, due to vagueness and Direct Contradiction and since almost all Christian teaching come from the bible it makes it pretty useless. The bible has been used for hundreds of years to persecute people. If you look at history the most popular use of the bible and associated teachings has been to oppress and control people. Any modern interpretation of the bible surely overlooks that for hundreds of years the very same words have been often used to justify the most heinous of deeds. Indeed many Christians from hundreds of years ago could have fully supported their arguments for burning people suspected of being a witch at the steak with quotes from the bible and assocaited christian teachings.

Lies, lies all lies.

Gimme a break Dramnek. Try reading the thing before attempting to diss it. Cancel each other my Jesus alone fulfilled over 100 prophecies from the old testament.




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I am the walrus!.... er, no hang on....

A fair dinkum laughing Hyena!

[Yorick]

Originally posted by boowinstheday: Sorry to trouble everyone... the only reason why I'm asking this question is that it's been plaguing me for as long as nineteen years, and I think it's about time I tried to find some answers. Anyway, to get to the point: Christianity speaks of how one will go to Heaven/Hell depending on how one lives presently, while Hinduism and Buddhism touch on karma and how it will affect one's next life. So is it a given that there is definitely life after death? (I know of some people who absolutely disbelieve this and are quite happy to just "vanish into nothingness" when their time is up.) I'm pretty troubled by two issues, really: 1) If there is life after death, whether it will be eternal (ie, round after round of reincarnation or an endless life in Heaven/Hell/Purgatory)? If not, this just leads to a slightly longer period before point 2). 2) If there isn't life after death, I'm not sure if I can accept just disappearing into thin air after a short spell here Some of you may want to tick me off for not finding a religion which may answer my question. The truth is, I daren't. Because my parents are happy being free thinkers and I don't want to end up at a different place from where they will be after they've gone (that's assuming there is indeed life after death). This is especially true of Christianity, I believe - they claim that non-believers will go to Hell/Purgatory. From what I've seen at this forum, the people here are very helpful and well-informed. I do hope that you will be indulgent just this once and share with me what you know of this subject. Thanks!

Boo, Jesus spoke of paradise on the cross. "Heaven" a state of eternal life with God, without death and imperfection, without sickness and the limitations of the human body is a Christian concept.

The Islamics believe in a paradise as well, that differs from the Christian heaven, in that it is more akin to a reward for good deeds, rather than a situation of greater relationship with the creator.

The ancient Jews had a limited picture of the afterlife. "Sheol" was either the grave, or a blurry unknown place.

Buddha spoke of Nirvana - the obliteration of the soul after the last reincarnation of an individual. Only a monk can achieve Nirvana. Other Buddhists melded ideas of paradisial places, but these mainly centred around the idea that Buddha put off achieving Nirvana to assist others in finding obliteration.

I personally believe the christian hell is a state of obliteration. My "hell" is Buddhas "heaven".

Hinduism speaks of many things, as, like New Age religion it is an amalgam of many different ancient religions under the ubrella of what we call Pantheism. A central idea to it's pantheistic core, is that we are all part of a great spirit that divided at the dawn of time into the many fragments of reality that have existed. Part of these fragments are we humans. It is believed that through a process of life, death and rebirth again and again, one achieves a purity and ends up attaining reunion with the great spirit where the experiences one had through life are incorperated and "learnt" by the great spirit.

Through what I have seen and experienced, those I have spoken with and the many mental pathways I have traversed I have rejected the theory of the Hindu great spirit.

I do though believe that Buddhas method works, and that Nirvana can be achieved by one who desires it.

Obliteration is not what I desire however.

I have chosen to accept the bibles concept of heaven as a reality. The christian worldview makes sense to me. Provides order to chaos, constant companionship, self esteem, greater creativity and a love for my fellow humans and the planet, that I otherwise would not have.

I believe when I move on from this world, I will be with the creator I have spent this life getting to know through experiencing his artwork and aspects of his love, forgiveness and providence.

Nothing anyone can say, nor do - even if they kill me - will take this from me.


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I am the walrus!.... er, no hang on....

A fair dinkum laughing Hyena!

[This message has been edited by Yorick (edited 10-08-2001).]

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Dramnek_Ulk:
"6. Explain why I should believe that your god is all-good when the only real information we have about him is the Bible, which clearly describes him as both good and evil. (See Isaiah 30:32, Luke 14:26, Numbers 31:17-18, Matthew 10:34, Amos 3:6, Deuteronomy 18:8, Deuteronomy 20:16, Exodus 20:5, Exodus 32:27, Isaiah 45:7, Psalms 52:5, Luke 22:36, and Jeremiah 18:11 for a small sample of Biblical passages which describe Jehovah as having an evil morality at times).

If life is positive or good, then God, the author of life is good. If creating is a positive, good act, then God is good. If maintaining all existence by will alone is a positive and goog act then God is good. Witholding or stopping these actions reverts all back to how it was/is without God. Thus at worst the creator is neutral, as all is in effect because of his will. The act of giving generously is considered one of love. God has given life, the planet and free will. I'd say these are acts of love.
The act of forgivness entails some of the strongest acts of love one can achieve.

God forgives daily, every moment.

If dying in anothers place is considered the ultimate act of love and sacrifice, the God, as Jesus, has to be lauded with the kudos for performing the ultimate act of love and sacrifice.

All of this is in the Bible Dramnek. If I create music I can destroy or refine it. Does that make me evil? No. It makes me an artist.


7. Explain why, when racism is clearly wrong, Jesus was clearly a racist (see Mark 7:25-29).
If you call healing a foreign womans daughter racism, then I too am a proud racist. So too is Mother Theresa. If this is the only evidence it is pretty flimsy. At another juncture Jesus hung out with a Samaritan woman whom Jews normally didn't associate with. Did you try looking at the passage you quoted here Dramnek? He tested her faith. He gave the predictable answer a Jew would be expected to give, but she persisted with him. Argued the point, and he rewarded that. As Christians we can take heart that we can do the same. We pray, God says no. We argue the point, persist, show evidence of faith.

He then healed the womans daughter as she asked.

11. Explain why, if your god loves us all, more than half of us are going to Hell after we die. Specifically, refute or explain the following words of Christ, as presented in the New Testament: "Many are called but few are chosen," and "Straight is the gate, and narrow is the way that leadeth unto salvation, and few there be that find it." If your god loves all of us, and is omnipotent and omniscient to boot, couldn't he have found a better way?

I do not believe the Bible satisfactoraly speaks of a place of eternal suffering, so this argument is invalid. I have read and reread the applicable verses, and together with an understanding of the character of God, and an understanding that without God nothing exists, and that Jesus offers life eternal - an eternity without God is nonexistance, not eternal "unlife" or eternal "substandard life". "The wages of sin are death." In revelation those who were not in the book of life are cast into the lake of fire. "This is the second death" it says.

Go read it for yourself Dramnek instead of spouting shonkily written arguments against a book that is the source (not sauce) of much wisdom, joy and insight to millions.
I am late, I will respond to the other points later.[/QUOTE]



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I am the walrus!.... er, no hang on....

A fair dinkum laughing Hyena!

[Kaz]

BTW, people, hasn't this gotten off-topic? This started out as a question as to life after death, it's ended up in bible-argumenting. I do not see why only the bible and - sometimes - other major religions are used as arguments here. It's not like we can't think for ourselves!
IMHO, each of us has his or her own absolute truth, his or her own thing to believe in. For some of you it is the Bible, for some it is not. For some it might be Buddha's teachings, the Koran, whatever, for some it is not. I have formed my own belief in reincarnation with the experiences I have made, it is changed slightly with every new experience I make.
I posted a post which was intended to be very thought-provoking back on Page 1, unfortunately since then everyone has started arguing about the bible and no one has responded!

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Sapphire Dragoness of ALSB
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Once Upon A Paper Writer's Forum

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Kaz: BTW, people, hasn't this gotten off-topic? This started out as a question as to life after death, it's ended up in bible-argumenting. I do not see why only the bible and - sometimes - other major religions are used as arguments here. It's not like we can't think for ourselves! IMHO, each of us has his or her own absolute truth, his or her own thing to believe in. For some of you it is the Bible, for some it is not. For some it might be Buddha's teachings, the Koran, whatever, for some it is not. I have formed my own belief in reincarnation with the experiences I have made, it is changed slightly with every new experience I make. I posted a post which was intended to be very thought-provoking back on Page 1, unfortunately since then everyone has started arguing about the bible and no one has responded!

Kaz?! My second last post above you was a response to the original topic DId you not even read it?


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I am the walrus!.... er, no hang on....

A fair dinkum laughing Hyena!