Avoid ECL classes

[Zoltan]

Specially for spell casters. 1-2 bonus spells for 20 INT or 20 CHA is not good as +1 level.

And about pally's..

Aasmir is the best ECL in my opinion. However, it's not good as a Human Pally. Let's see the stats.

Level 12 Human Paladin

STR 18
CON 12
DEX 12
INT 8
WIS 12
CHA 14

Total: 16

Level 11 Aasmir Paladin (-1 level because of ECL class)

STR 18
CON 14
DEX 12
INT 10
WIS 12
CHA 14

Total:20

Let's compare them..
it's just for fun. Just to share my thoughts ok?

TOTAL HP

+11 HP (+1 level) = +11 HP (CON modifier +1 higher)

Level 11 Aasmir has 110 (10d11) + 22 (11 x 2) = 132 HP

Level 12 Human has 120 (10d12) + 12 (12 x 1) = 132 HP

SKILL POINTS PER LEVEL

2 skill points per level (humans get +1) VS 1 skill points per level (no int modifier)

FEAT

+1 extra feat VS none

CREATION

2 extra skill points at 1st level VS N/A (it's not a big penalty anyway)

THACO

Base Attack +12 (+1 level) VS Base Attack +11 (-1 level, ECL)

RESISTANCE

N/A VS 5 Fire, Cold, Electric Resistance (finally!)

SAVE

+1 save (+1 level) VS +1 fortifude (Con modifier is +1 higher)

Well, choice is yours, All comments welcome!

[Jack of Speed]

Perhaps for some classes... BUT my drow sorcerer is my party leader, because of this he gets more than EXP than the rest of the party. That plus the experience book in the monestary has actualy put him PAST my humans in level. And whiel yes I could have a level 28 human sorcerer right now instead of a 26 Drow I like the bonuses they get. ESPECIALY the spell resistance!!! at level 28 my Sorc has a spell resistance of 38 and almost ALL spell fail on him and thats in HoF. I see your point about Aasimir but I still think Drow are worth it.

[Zoltan]

I cant say that you're wrong. 2 level penalty is a big penalty in early levels but for high levels it's ok, 38 spell resistance oh god I cant believe it!!

[toriuxik]

lol, my asimar is level 1 pal, level 6 monk. That is a dual class that has yet to fail a save. lol, +5 mod from charisma is a nice bonus. The monk has good saves normally too. Of course, the 20 wisdom is nice too. So How would a human compare to this? Not very well. lol It would stink up the room in comparison.

All the ECL characters should be used a bit differently. They have stranger abilities and penalties.

I think my fav ECL is Deep Gnome. I can't dislike a +4 AC.

[Nightowl2]

Somewhere a long way back in the messages, someone suggested using a deep gnome as a monk. Of course, the 3 level penalty is rather stiff, but I think with careful play, and especially if you plan on moving up to HOF later, this could be a viable combination. Just think about that blur once a day, and continuous non-detection for sneaking around. And yes, that +4 generic AC bonus, which would stack with all the others, including the special bonus monks get as they go up in level.

Nightowl2

[Gimli]

"lol, my asimar is level 1 pal, level 6 monk. That is a dual class that has yet to fail a save. lol, +5 mod from charisma is a nice bonus. The monk has good saves normally too. Of course, the 20 wisdom is nice too. So How would a human compare to this? Not very well. lol It would stink up the room in comparison."

A human similarly constructed would have 2 less in Wis and Cha, so he'd have 1 AC point less and 1 saving throw bonus point less. But, he'd also have an extra level, an extra feat, 4 more skill points at 1st level and one more per level thereafter. I don't think that qualifies as stinking at all [img]smile.gif[/img]

Also the dual is a little weird to me, the other Monk stats would really suffer with a 20 in Cha - and the Monk has amazing saves as it is, he doesn't need a paladin level to help them out, seems like saving throw overkill to me, which will come at the expense of combat effectiveness (you'd have to skimp on str and/or dex, both of which are vital to a Monk when he fights).

[Jellyfish]

All the races with exp penalty are good to form a group having less than 6 characters.
Iwd II is using the core rule of 3rd Edition, the average level of your party will affect the experience you gain. The lower the average level is the higher the exp you get.
I've played online with several best friends for some time. We all used the races with no exp penalty, and there were only 4 characters in our group. We played from the beginning without exporting or importing. When we were fighting in the dragon's eye, we seldom got exp killing the enemies.
My friend solo this game with a Aasmir paladin/monk/sorceror(sor is the main class). Though there is xp penalty, he levels up pretty fast.

So the races like deep gnome and drow are good to form an 'elite' group with not many persons. They are good even for solo, because the xp penalty keeps their level lower than usual races. In other word, they need more xp to level up.

[Jack of Speed]

I have found the exp Penalized races are PERFECT for soloing... have you ever seen a Drow monk? the Spell resistance STACKS(too a point[50]) I also made a Deep Gnome Fighter/Wizard... very flexible and with a starting AC of 19. Got up to the horde fortress with him but stopped to play through HoF. SO: If a character is penalized 3 levels is he given experience based on his EFFECTIVE level class or his ACTUAL?

[toriuxik]

Originally posted by Gimli: "lol, my asimar is level 1 pal, level 6 monk. That is a dual class that has yet to fail a save. lol, +5 mod from charisma is a nice bonus. The monk has good saves normally too. Of course, the 20 wisdom is nice too. So How would a human compare to this? Not very well. lol It would stink up the room in comparison." A human similarly constructed would have 2 less in Wis and Cha, so he'd have 1 AC point less and 1 saving throw bonus point less. But, he'd also have an extra level, an extra feat, 4 more skill points at 1st level and one more per level thereafter. I don't think that qualifies as stinking at all [img]smile.gif[/img] Also the dual is a little weird to me, the other Monk stats would really suffer with a 20 in Cha - and the Monk has amazing saves as it is, he doesn't need a paladin level to help them out, seems like saving throw overkill to me, which will come at the expense of combat effectiveness (you'd have to skimp on str and/or dex, both of which are vital to a Monk when he fights).

How does a monk SUFFER from having a good cha? Nobody ever SUFFERS from it, its a nice benefit for 1 or MAYBE 2 chars. This monk is my 'spokes-person', so she needs that 20. Also, monks don't need strength that badly (especially in the REAL 3rd edition rules with weapon finesse (unarmed), and my monk has 18 dex. A deep gnome monk is NOT good as a spokes person though... just think of all that ugly, grey skin. heh heh

The only benefit I've ever found for being a human is the bonus feat. Of course, having a bonus to wis and cha outweighs this for a monk/paladin.

Don't forget the ability to heal 5 damage every day.

Monks saves at low levels aren't anything specialy amazing (like all low level characters), so the bonus +5 to each from the paladin level is insanely useful. She's very handy for hanging around in an entangled or webbed area.

[Jellyfish]

If I were you, I agree with Gimli.
Using a monk as a speaking person isn't so wise... Don't you want any rewards?
A monk does not need str so badly, but he does need it. It will make a lot of difference since the weapon finesse is no use to monks' fists in iwd2.
Anyway, that's your choice. Having fun is most important.