How am i sposed to go about this? - Page 4

lost prophet · 10-15-2005, 11:57 PM

so if i dropped the razorvine extract and then talked to him would it work do you think?

Aerich · 10-16-2005, 03:12 AM

I don't think so, but it's worth a shot.

NobleNick · 10-18-2005, 09:50 AM

~
~~minor spoilers, below~~
~

lost prophet,

Another XP data point.

After completing SH, including all quests that can be completed without traveling to new areas, TOTAL XP to be split amongst the party is about 1,320K (about 220K per character for a party of 6). This includes XP from a quest given in Kuldahar that can only be satisfied with an item from SH.

So, my Fighters have not quite made CLVL 9 at the beginning of DD. I had thought that yours should be farther along; but having Fighters that haven't yet made CLVL 11 near the beginning of WT is beginning to look, uh, not unreasonable to me.

Hope that helped without being too spoilerish. I will try to remember to post my next data point, at the end of DD; and by then I should have a much better idea of whether or not you've missed any quest XP.

--------------------
What's a party,
without a song?
Bards ROCK!
Party On!!

[ 10-18-2005, 10:12 AM: Message edited by: NobleNick ]

lost prophet · 10-19-2005, 11:11 AM

Thanks NobleNick,

right now i am just about to get an essential item from a dark elf in Dorns Deeps which will be the last i have to obtain before moving on, my party looks like this:

Fighter[13]/thief(12)
Fighter[13]/G_Cleric(10)
Fighter[13]/N_Cleric(9)
Fighter[13]/Druid(12)
Fighter[13]/Mage(10)
Bard (16)

a question: will my characters regain there former class when they get to lvl 13 or will it be when they gain the same amount of experience as they had in their fighter class. If it is the former i can expect my thief to conplete his evolution sooner which is much needed.

NobleNick · 10-19-2005, 02:12 PM

lost prophet,

This is a SUH-WEET looking expansion game party! You are going to burn 'em up in HoW/TotLM!

Your characters must attain ONE **LEVEL** HIGHER in the second class than they attained in the first class. So your DC F(13)/X needs to be F(13)/X(14) to regain Fighter skills. In addition to the Fighter XP, this takes 880K in Thief, 1350K for Cleric, 1500K for Mage, and 1500K for Druid.

I trust you are garnering some items to take back to a certain earlier area in the game, for mondo big (and I mean big) XP, before starting HoW.

I was going to suggest that after you get your quest XP, you camp a bit at DE3; which is what I intend to do with a party very similar to yours. But, with 2 solid CLVL 10 Clerics (which is what I figure you will have just with quest XP) and plenty of Arcane power from the Bard and the Mage, you will have enough tools available to get a toe-hold in the expansion; and then it will only get better as your party starts regaining Fighter skills.

I think I remember you saying that your Good Cleric had Mace proficiency. If a non-good character also has PP stacked in Mace, then I suggest you procure "The Giving Star" in Kuldahar before moving on.

--------------------
What's a party,
without a song?
Bards ROCK!
Party On!!

[ 10-19-2005, 02:34 PM: Message edited by: NobleNick ]

Aerich · 10-19-2005, 11:58 PM

There's a reason why you like lost prophet's party, Nick... it's the exact same as yours. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

You don't have to get all the way dualed over before going to HoW; there's plenty of easy (e.g. quest/dialogue) experience in Lonelywood, before you even have to fight anything.

NobleNick · 10-20-2005, 10:44 AM

There's a reason why you like lost prophet's party, Nick... it's the exact same as yours. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

LOL! Well I *will* admit to a STRONG resemblence. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Actually, lost prophet's party is the one I didn't have the patience to make; because I wanted at least a Cleric -OR- a Thief in the early to mid game. (Congrats, lost prophet, on making it to the F(13) DCs without a Cleric AND without a Thief!)

Both lost prohet's party and mine sport FIVE (5) DC warriors and a Bard; and both parties include 2 Cleric DC mixes. But lost prophet has 5 DC F(13)/X, whereas I only have 4. My DC Clerics are expected to be F(13)/C and C(12)/R, whereas lost prophet's Cleric mixes are both F(13)/C. So his party will have a bit more muscle (assuming he stacked his PP 5 and 3 for all characters) and better access to Cleric spells; and mine will have better access to Druid spells.

I think my party will be just a touch more interesting to play. I honestly don't know which party will be stronger in the late game; but I highly suspect the answer is that lost prophet's party has the edge.

You don't have to get all the way dualed over before going to HoW; there's plenty of easy (e.g. quest/dialogue) experience in Lonelywood, before you even have to fight anything.

Forgot about this. Actually, it's worse than that: I thought about it and couldn't remember any significant XP granted before the first combat area. It has been way over a year since I last initiated a party into Lonelywood; so it's high time for a refresher. Thanks for the reminder: I may spend less time camping in IWD.

--------------------
What's a party,
without a song?
Bards ROCK!
Party On!!

[ 10-20-2005, 11:06 AM: Message edited by: NobleNick ]

krunchyfrogg · 10-20-2005, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lost prophet:
so if i dropped the razorvine extract and then talked to him would it work do you think?

Did it work?

lost prophet · 10-21-2005, 05:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by NobleNick:
lost prophet,
I trust you are garnering some items to take back to a certain earlier area in the game, for mondo big (and I mean big) XP, before starting HoW.

spoilers below!!
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
do you mean the stuff for severed hand? ie pure water,animals and seeds?. if so can you spoil the loacations for me as i have no idea at all from the last time i played. ive found the pure water but i might have chucked it im afraid.

Right now im having problems with malavon and his preistesses of lolth with their bloody magic resistance and AoE spells. Magic is my only strength as everyone has a THAC0 of about 12 and it doesnt work! ive tried buffs and no magic but there carve me up with incendanary(sp?) cloud and things like that... then theres thoughs golems.

prophet.

[ 10-21-2005, 05:19 AM: Message edited by: lost prophet ]

NobleNick · 10-21-2005, 01:19 PM

...do you mean the stuff for severed hand? ie pure water,animals and seeds?. if so can you spoil the loacations for me as i have no idea at all from the last time i played. ive found the pure water but i might have chucked it im afraid.

Right now im having problems with malavon and his preistesses of lolth with their bloody magic resistance and AoE spells. Magic is my only strength as everyone has a THAC0 of about 12 and it doesnt work! ive tried buffs and no magic but there carve me up with incendanary(sp?) cloud and things like that... then theres thoughs golems...

lost prophet,

~
~ SPOILERS BELOW ~
~

I have always found Malavon to be one of the toughest fights, and I think most would share that evaluation; and here you are trying to do it with no active Fighter skills. You are on the right track, with buffs. Here are some things I would try:

1.) General strategy: Malavon will retreat if you put the heat to him (he may retreat anyway, I don't know). So pour the firepower onto him and get him to go hide out. Concentrate fire to eliminate other casters while running away from golems. I found that it worked to temporarily break the party up, so as to not be susceptable to AoE spells, and RUN from golems while taking out softer targets.

2.) The THAC0 problem: You have 2 Clerics and the Bard. The Clerics are going to have to be your make-shift warriors. Make sure they are armed with a minimum of 2-point THAC0 bonus weapons. (Again, as I did in an earlier post, I highly recommend "The Giving Star" to any of your characters who qualify.) The Clerics can cast bless on each other. Then, as soon as the toughies are within view of both Clerics, have one Cleric cast Prayer while the other casts Recitation. The Bard can sing the "3 Heros" song, to give everyone combat bonuses. If I remembered correctly, this gives the Clerics a 1 + 1 + 2 +1 = 5 point bonus to THAC0 from spells/songs alone, which is enough improvement to make them look like crummy Fighters. Add in the 2 or 3 point weapon THAC0 bonus and you are set.

3.) The AC problem: Remember that Prayer and Recitation also impair enemy THAC0, which has exactly the same effect as improving your AC. Your Clerics also have Defensive Harmony which gives a whopping 4 point bonus to AC. Don't forget "Improved Invisibility" which, even after your invisible "Fighter" attacks, still provides a residual 2 point bonus to AC. IIRC, War Chant improves AC by 2 points; so you should have the tools to reduce AC for at least 2 to 4 members of your party by at least 10, which is the same as an 10 point THAC0 penalty for each golem. This might be the right time to slap Stoneskin, Blur AND Mirror Image onto your Bard, which stack with the other buffs, and let her tank.

4.) All my previous parties have had the firepower to take on Malavon's summons as he produced them, and for as long as he wanted to produce them. If such is not the case for you (and it looks like it might not be) then I would try this: Slap buffs and Improved Invisibility (in that order) on my Thief and Clerics, go to Malavon's little hidey-hole and gut him as early in the fight as you can.

5.) If all else fails, leave Malavon alone, do all other areas first, get your XP from completing all quests, do an hour or 2 of power leveling in DE3, and return when you have a bit stiffer party. If worse comes to worse, I see no really important reason for doing Malavon before you do HoW.

On quests and XP: Yes, I am talking about the SH quests. If you dropped the pure water (not the holy water --> that's another quest), do not fear: It is a quest item, and therefore should not disappear. Retrace your steps, using the ALT key in every room, until you find it (or use Dalekeeper to hack it back into your inventory). I know there are at least TWO (2) items that you can buy from Nym, and I think there is at least one other item for the gardens in LDD. Don't forget the item that you can take back to Larrel to disprove his theory. All the SH quests that require items from DD/WT/LDD grant a total of 400K to 500K XP! That is about the same XP as killing 300+ Cold Wights on DE3! Very much worth the trip back to SH.

I hope this helps.

--------------------
What's a party,
without a song?
Bards ROCK!
Party On!!

10-15-2005, 11:57 PM	#31
lost prophet Drow Warrior Join Date: October 23, 2004 Location: Perth, Western Australia, Australia Age: 33 Posts: 297	so if i dropped the razorvine extract and then talked to him would it work do you think? __________________ I have a dream, we all have dreams.

10-16-2005, 03:12 AM	#32
Aerich Lord Ao Join Date: May 27, 2004 Location: Canada Age: 42 Posts: 2,061	I don't think so, but it's worth a shot. __________________ Where there is a great deal of free speech, there is always a certain amount of foolish speech. - Winston S. Churchill

10-19-2005, 11:11 AM	#34
lost prophet Drow Warrior Join Date: October 23, 2004 Location: Perth, Western Australia, Australia Age: 33 Posts: 297	Thanks NobleNick, right now i am just about to get an essential item from a dark elf in Dorns Deeps which will be the last i have to obtain before moving on, my party looks like this: Fighter[13]/thief(12) Fighter[13]/G_Cleric(10) Fighter[13]/N_Cleric(9) Fighter[13]/Druid(12) Fighter[13]/Mage(10) Bard (16) a question: will my characters regain there former class when they get to lvl 13 or will it be when they gain the same amount of experience as they had in their fighter class. If it is the former i can expect my thief to conplete his evolution sooner which is much needed. __________________ I have a dream, we all have dreams.

10-19-2005, 11:58 PM	#36
Aerich Lord Ao Join Date: May 27, 2004 Location: Canada Age: 42 Posts: 2,061	There's a reason why you like lost prophet's party, Nick... it's the exact same as yours. [img]tongue.gif[/img] You don't have to get all the way dualed over before going to HoW; there's plenty of easy (e.g. quest/dialogue) experience in Lonelywood, before you even have to fight anything. __________________ Where there is a great deal of free speech, there is always a certain amount of foolish speech. - Winston S. Churchill

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10-18-2005, 09:50 AM	#33
NobleNick Quintesson Join Date: February 5, 2002 Location: Huntsville, AL, USA Age: 63 Posts: 1,045	~ ~~minor spoilers, below~~ ~ lost prophet, Another XP data point. After completing SH, including all quests that can be completed without traveling to new areas, TOTAL XP to be split amongst the party is about 1,320K (about 220K per character for a party of 6). This includes XP from a quest given in Kuldahar that can only be satisfied with an item from SH. So, my Fighters have not quite made CLVL 9 at the beginning of DD. I had thought that yours should be farther along; but having Fighters that haven't yet made CLVL 11 near the beginning of WT is beginning to look, uh, not unreasonable to me. Hope that helped without being too spoilerish. I will try to remember to post my next data point, at the end of DD; and by then I should have a much better idea of whether or not you've missed any quest XP. -------------------- What's a party, without a song? Bards ROCK! Party On!! [ 10-18-2005, 10:12 AM: Message edited by: NobleNick ]

10-19-2005, 02:12 PM	#35
NobleNick Quintesson Join Date: February 5, 2002 Location: Huntsville, AL, USA Age: 63 Posts: 1,045	lost prophet, This is a SUH-WEET looking expansion game party! You are going to burn 'em up in HoW/TotLM! Your characters must attain ONE LEVEL HIGHER in the second class than they attained in the first class. So your DC F(13)/X needs to be F(13)/X(14) to regain Fighter skills. In addition to the Fighter XP, this takes 880K in Thief, 1350K for Cleric, 1500K for Mage, and 1500K for Druid. I trust you are garnering some items to take back to a certain earlier area in the game, for mondo big (and I mean big) XP, before starting HoW. I was going to suggest that after you get your quest XP, you camp a bit at DE3; which is what I intend to do with a party very similar to yours. But, with 2 solid CLVL 10 Clerics (which is what I figure you will have just with quest XP) and plenty of Arcane power from the Bard and the Mage, you will have enough tools available to get a toe-hold in the expansion; and then it will only get better as your party starts regaining Fighter skills. I think I remember you saying that your Good Cleric had Mace proficiency. If a non-good character also has PP stacked in Mace, then I suggest you procure "The Giving Star" in Kuldahar before moving on. -------------------- What's a party, without a song? Bards ROCK! Party On!! [ 10-19-2005, 02:34 PM: Message edited by: NobleNick ]

10-20-2005, 10:44 AM	#37
NobleNick Quintesson Join Date: February 5, 2002 Location: Huntsville, AL, USA Age: 63 Posts: 1,045	There's a reason why you like lost prophet's party, Nick... it's the exact same as yours. [img]tongue.gif[/img] LOL! Well I will admit to a STRONG resemblence. [img]tongue.gif[/img] Actually, lost prophet's party is the one I didn't have the patience to make; because I wanted at least a Cleric -OR- a Thief in the early to mid game. (Congrats, lost prophet, on making it to the F(13) DCs without a Cleric AND without a Thief!) Both lost prohet's party and mine sport FIVE (5) DC warriors and a Bard; and both parties include 2 Cleric DC mixes. But lost prophet has 5 DC F(13)/X, whereas I only have 4. My DC Clerics are expected to be F(13)/C and C(12)/R, whereas lost prophet's Cleric mixes are both F(13)/C. So his party will have a bit more muscle (assuming he stacked his PP 5 and 3 for all characters) and better access to Cleric spells; and mine will have better access to Druid spells. I think my party will be just a touch more interesting to play. I honestly don't know which party will be stronger in the late game; but I highly suspect the answer is that lost prophet's party has the edge. You don't have to get all the way dualed over before going to HoW; there's plenty of easy (e.g. quest/dialogue) experience in Lonelywood, before you even have to fight anything. Forgot about this. Actually, it's worse than that: I thought about it and couldn't remember any significant XP granted before the first combat area. It has been way over a year since I last initiated a party into Lonelywood; so it's high time for a refresher. Thanks for the reminder: I may spend less time camping in IWD. -------------------- What's a party, without a song? Bards ROCK! Party On!! [ 10-20-2005, 11:06 AM: Message edited by: NobleNick ]

10-21-2005, 01:19 PM	#40
NobleNick Quintesson Join Date: February 5, 2002 Location: Huntsville, AL, USA Age: 63 Posts: 1,045	...do you mean the stuff for severed hand? ie pure water,animals and seeds?. if so can you spoil the loacations for me as i have no idea at all from the last time i played. ive found the pure water but i might have chucked it im afraid. Right now im having problems with malavon and his preistesses of lolth with their bloody magic resistance and AoE spells. Magic is my only strength as everyone has a THAC0 of about 12 and it doesnt work! ive tried buffs and no magic but there carve me up with incendanary(sp?) cloud and things like that... then theres thoughs golems... lost prophet, ~ ~ SPOILERS BELOW ~ ~ I have always found Malavon to be one of the toughest fights, and I think most would share that evaluation; and here you are trying to do it with no active Fighter skills. You are on the right track, with buffs. Here are some things I would try: 1.) General strategy: Malavon will retreat if you put the heat to him (he may retreat anyway, I don't know). So pour the firepower onto him and get him to go hide out. Concentrate fire to eliminate other casters while running away from golems. I found that it worked to temporarily break the party up, so as to not be susceptable to AoE spells, and RUN from golems while taking out softer targets. 2.) The THAC0 problem: You have 2 Clerics and the Bard. The Clerics are going to have to be your make-shift warriors. Make sure they are armed with a minimum of 2-point THAC0 bonus weapons. (Again, as I did in an earlier post, I highly recommend "The Giving Star" to any of your characters who qualify.) The Clerics can cast bless on each other. Then, as soon as the toughies are within view of both Clerics, have one Cleric cast Prayer while the other casts Recitation. The Bard can sing the "3 Heros" song, to give everyone combat bonuses. If I remembered correctly, this gives the Clerics a 1 + 1 + 2 +1 = 5 point bonus to THAC0 from spells/songs alone, which is enough improvement to make them look like crummy Fighters. Add in the 2 or 3 point weapon THAC0 bonus and you are set. 3.) The AC problem: Remember that Prayer and Recitation also impair enemy THAC0, which has exactly the same effect as improving your AC. Your Clerics also have Defensive Harmony which gives a whopping 4 point bonus to AC. Don't forget "Improved Invisibility" which, even after your invisible "Fighter" attacks, still provides a residual 2 point bonus to AC. IIRC, War Chant improves AC by 2 points; so you should have the tools to reduce AC for at least 2 to 4 members of your party by at least 10, which is the same as an 10 point THAC0 penalty for each golem. This might be the right time to slap Stoneskin, Blur AND Mirror Image onto your Bard, which stack with the other buffs, and let her tank. 4.) All my previous parties have had the firepower to take on Malavon's summons as he produced them, and for as long as he wanted to produce them. If such is not the case for you (and it looks like it might not be) then I would try this: Slap buffs and Improved Invisibility (in that order) on my Thief and Clerics, go to Malavon's little hidey-hole and gut him as early in the fight as you can. 5.) If all else fails, leave Malavon alone, do all other areas first, get your XP from completing all quests, do an hour or 2 of power leveling in DE3, and return when you have a bit stiffer party. If worse comes to worse, I see no really important reason for doing Malavon before you do HoW. On quests and XP: Yes, I am talking about the SH quests. If you dropped the pure water (not the holy water --> that's another quest), do not fear: It is a quest item, and therefore should not disappear. Retrace your steps, using the ALT key in every room, until you find it (or use Dalekeeper to hack it back into your inventory). I know there are at least TWO (2) items that you can buy from Nym, and I think there is at least one other item for the gardens in LDD. Don't forget the item that you can take back to Larrel to disprove his theory. All the SH quests that require items from DD/WT/LDD grant a total of 400K to 500K XP! That is about the same XP as killing 300+ Cold Wights on DE3! Very much worth the trip back to SH. I hope this helps. -------------------- What's a party, without a song? Bards ROCK! Party On!!

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