People like this need to be put away....permanently

Eisenschwarz, it would be better for you to comment on the topic rather than attack the opinions of other members

Ciao

[Jeffi0]

I have to disagree with "Life is earned, it isn't a right". God gave everyone life, so who are we to take it away? His life is not ours to take. Besides, for you people who want to see him suffer, I'd think that spending the rest of your life in prison wouldn't be very fun.

[Neb]

Well, let's say that life is a right, then, so when someone violates someone else's right to live, we violate their right to live. He'll end up reaping what he sowed. Why should we feed and give him a place to live for the rest of his life? Might as well stop him being a damn leech on society while we have the chance.

[Leonis]

Originally posted by Eisenschwarz: Unlike Some people here, I consider Murder & Torture a bad thing. The amount of hatred I see vented over things like this is sometimes dispiriting, But of course it’s easy to _wish_ it on someone. How far have we come in the last 2000 years? This thread makes me wonder. Would you really want someone tortured? Or killed even? REALLY? Do you even know what that entails? Evidently not. All people have the right to life, even those guilty of the worst of crimes. What he did is an act of pure insanity; no normal person would do as such, Thus I probably think that being detained in a secure mental unit for the rest of his days will do, Of course since I am not a psych. I cannot say whether that would be truly appropriate, but it seems it.

Got to agree here to a point. It's good that people get so upset at crimes such as these - but to respond with violence and hatred?? That disturbs me as well. Let him live out his days in prison reflecting on what he's done. He'll die slowly, trapped, as his son is doing.
Personally, I would want him to be repentant for what he's done before he died. Not excecuted in his defiance.

Remorse is powerful. For someone to be truly remorseful and repentant, they have arrived at a place where they understand the full meaning of what they've done.

I've seen time and time again that hurt people can only forgive the one who hurt them when they feel they have taken ownership of what they've done. When they understand the pain and torment they've caused them and would do anything, give anything, including their own life, to undo it.

I'd like to see him get to that point. It's an ideal I know, but that's why he's in gaol.

[ 11-20-2002, 06:04 PM: Message edited by: Leonis ]

[Ronn_Bman]

Originally posted by Eisenschwarz: Unlike Some people here, I consider Murder & Torture a bad thing. The amount of hatred I see vented over things like this is sometimes dispiriting, But of course it’s easy to _wish_ it on someone. How far have we come in the last 2000 years? This thread makes me wonder. Makes you wonder what? That instead of this guy being stoned by the local tribesmen, he was tried in a court, and the local tribesmen think his punishment was too light? Would you really want someone tortured? Or killed even? REALLY? Do you even know what that entails? Evidently not. Tortured? Actually NO, but saying he deserves it isn't really the same as doing it. Killed? Absolutely, I think he should be put to sleep like a rabid dog. Do you know what it entails? I doubt it unless you are the "black-hooded ax man" at a penal institution responsible for administering that punishment, or a murderer. Evidently not? Please spare us your "holier than thou" attitude. You have about as much knowledge about killing someone as anyone else here. All people have the right to life, even those guilty of the worst of crimes. See Neb's post for a rebuke of this silly statement What he did is an act of pure insanity; no normal person would do as such, Thus I probably think that being detained in a secure mental unit for the rest of his days will do, Of course since I am not a psych. I cannot say whether that would be truly appropriate, but it seems it. Insane? No. Twisted? Yes. It's not the same thing. If you read the article, you'd see that greed not insanity was this A-Hole's motive for this "time released" murder. People who do this kind of thing aren't automatically insane, and since you mention that you aren't a psychologist, I don't think your evaluation of this "patient" is a particularly valid argument. BTW, it's very nice that you spent your entire post attacking the opinons of others and saying why this piece of trash should live, but didn't have a single comment for the victims. I love the "victims don't count", save the guilty mentality.

[ 11-20-2002, 06:05 PM: Message edited by: Ronn_Bman ]

[Attalus]

Well, in one celebrated formulation, either he could be made well or not. If he could be made well, how could he face what he did? Surely, he would hang himself. And, if he cannot be made well, why not hang him? And, either way, once he is hanged, we can be sure that he will not be injecting little boys with HIV+ serum. Apologies to the shade of Robert A. Heinlein. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[Jeffi0]

Originally posted by Neb: Well, let's say that life is a right, then, so when someone violates someone else's right to live, we violate their right to live. He'll end up reaping what he sowed. Why should we feed and give him a place to live for the rest of his life? Might as well stop him being a damn leech on society while we have the chance.

Just because he killed someone, it doesn't mean we have the right to kill him. Killing him won't cure his son of AIDs. What is important is that he is punished for his crime and he is prevented from doing it again. Throwing him in jail will accomplish that, so you don't need to kill him. A prisoner isn't "leeching on society" nearly as much as a welfare person does, and there are a LOT of people on welfare. It might cost the jail a few dollars a day for him, but what is that? The government rakes in billions each year, so supporting an entire jail might be the same as if a average businessman lived and payed taxes in another country. Not much money is lost. Like I said earlier, we didn't give him life so we shouldn't take it away.

[Ronn_Bman]

Originally posted by Leonis: It's good that people get so upset at crimes such as these - but to respond with violence and hatred?? That disturbs me as well. Let him live out his days in prison reflecting on what he's done. He'll die slowly, trapped, as his son is doing. Personally, I would want him to be repentant for what he's done before he died. Not excecuted in his defiance. Remorse is powerful. For someone to be truly remorseful and repentant, they have arrived at a place where they understand the full meaning of what they've done. I've seen time and time again that hurt people can only forgive the one who hurt them when they feel they have taken ownership of what they've done. When they understand the pain and torment they've caused them and would do anything, give anything, including their own life, to undo it. I'd like to see him get to that point. It's an ideal I know, but that's why he's in gaol.

Nothing wrong with that POV Leonis! You make good points.

I don't think anyone who has a different opinion from mine is necessarily **completely** wrong. By definition, I don't completely agree with you, but I know I'm not perfect and am willing to listen.

At least you were able to state your point without "talking down" to anyone. [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

[ 11-20-2002, 06:15 PM: Message edited by: Ronn_Bman ]

Originally posted by Eisenschwarz: Unlike Some people here, I consider Murder & Torture a bad thing. In America (the part I grew up in at any rate) we call it justice. There is no virtue in preserving sick and perverted bastards like this. At least as fertilizer he will contribute to the common good. The amount of hatred I see vented over things like this is sometimes dispiriting, But of course it’s easy to _wish_ it on someone. How far have we come in the last 2000 years? This thread makes me wonder. I would posit, that if you feel anything but disgust, revulsion and anger about this person and his actions, I would request that you NEVER visit anywhere near where I live, please. Would you really want someone tortured? Or killed even? REALLY? Do you even know what that entails? Evidently not. Yes I would and no you are wrong, I know exactly what it would entail and I would volunteer to do it. You worry about the offender, I worry and care about the innocent victim. All people have the right to life, even those guilty of the worst of crimes. Majorly false assumption. This notion is idealistic pap. What he did is an act of pure insanity; no normal person would do as such, Thus I probably think that being detained in a secure mental unit for the rest of his days will do, Of course since I am not a psych. I cannot say whether that would be truly appropriate, but it seems it.

What he did was an evil vile act that cannot be undone, whats worse, if kept alive he could do it to others, there is not one single reason this person should draw another breath.

Just my opinions of course, but I seriously do not want anyone with your type of "compassion" living in my community. I was taught to protect children above all else, and the only way to ensure this sick animal never does anything even remotely like this again is to put him down like the rabid dog he is.

Edit: I apologize if this seems like Im attacking you personally, I am not angry at you, but I do have a problem with people who defend this kind of scum...and that gives scum a bad name. You have your point of view. I hope some day you grow out of it.

[ 11-20-2002, 06:22 PM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

Originally posted by Leonis: Got to agree here to a point. It's good that people get so upset at crimes such as these - but to respond with violence and hatred?? That disturbs me as well. Let him live out his days in prison reflecting on what he's done. He'll die slowly, trapped, as his son is doing. Personally, I would want him to be repentant for what he's done before he died. Not excecuted in his defiance. What exactly makes violence and hatred bad? There are hateful things in the world, there are proper times to hate and to commit violence. Protection of children and others should be everyones number 1 priority. THis .... thing that looks like a human does not deserve and should not be allowed to live. Remorse is powerful. For someone to be truly remorseful and repentant, they have arrived at a place where they understand the full meaning of what they've done. I've seen time and time again that hurt people can only forgive the one who hurt them when they feel they have taken ownership of what they've done. When they understand the pain and torment they've caused them and would do anything, give anything, including their own life, to undo it. I'd like to see him get to that point. It's an ideal I know, but that's why he's in gaol.

He is in gaol sucking up resources that could be feeding starving children in other parts of the world or even in the same part.

Note: My anger and disgust is not directed at you Leonis or at The big E. But I do not want to live in a community of people that view these issues the way you two seem to. Cancers need to be killed, and this vermin gives cancer a bad name.