Visit the Ironworks Gaming Website Email the Webmaster Graphics Library Rules and Regulations Help Support Ironworks Forum with a Donation to Keep us Online - We rely totally on Donations from members Donation goal Meter

Ironworks Gaming Radio

Ironworks Gaming Forum

Go Back   Ironworks Gaming Forum > Ironworks Gaming Classics > Icewind Dale | Heart of Winter | Icewind Dale II Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 01-14-2003, 12:22 AM   #11
koz-ivan
Manshoon
 

Join Date: March 14, 2001
Location: boston, ma, us
Posts: 164
Quote:
Originally posted by jonnyx3:
I have a 8th level monk which I use for scouting and a back up fighter.

She has Dex 21 and Wis 18 which is great but her Str is only 10.
She hits a lot but her damage is pityful.

Has anyone any ideas on boosting her firepower.

I was planning to fit her out with bracers of Str or similar (as IWD 1) but the items & potions I have used so far simply add +1 or +2.
2nd level cleric/bard/mage spell - bull's strength will add 2-5 str
5th level cleric spell - champion's strength +6 str

start adding ability points (every 4th level up) to strength...

and that's about as good as it's going to get for you. on the plus side your monk must be fairly hard to hit, no?
koz-ivan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2003, 02:35 AM   #12
Kakero
40th Level Warrior
 

Join Date: March 24, 2002
Posts: 10,215
Quote:
Originally posted by Luvian :
Just because you can emploit the game engine does not mean you have to. How can you be proud of yourself after completing a game, if you exploited it? It's like playing poker with somone who does not know the rules, and inventing new hands. How can you then be proud of your victory? That cheating.
It does not matter if the game is an hack and slash, rpg, fps, or anything else. When you do something that go against the spirit of the game, when you use flaws in the game engine to your advantage, it's cheating. You can come up with any justifications you want, it still won't change the fact that it's cheating.
If cheating make you feel special, then keep doing it, but personally, I would be ashamed. I would rather play and lose in a fair way, than win in a cheap way.
interesting how you put it. I could have put this one " just because you can exploit someone's lack of general knowledge does not mean you have to. how can you be proud of yourself after typing something that the other person would have never even thought of? It's like typing something about poker with someone who don't even know what poker is. " would that be called cheating?

but then again I'll stop here. I don't want to argue with a mod. I just don't like to be branded a cheater just because I try to point out how to improve a monk. * shake head *

[ 01-14-2003, 04:58 AM: Message edited by: Kakero ]
Kakero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2003, 06:01 AM   #13
Grojlach
Zartan
 

Join Date: May 2, 2001
Location: Ulpia Noviomagus Batavorum
Age: 42
Posts: 5,281
Quote:
Originally posted by Kakero:
but then again I'll stop here. I don't want to argue with a mod. I just don't like to be branded a cheater just because I try to point out how to improve a monk. * shake head *
But you're not improving the monk. You're just making him extremely silly.
But I take it you're not familiar with the official third edition D&D rules, nor care much about them whatsoever... Else you would realize what Luvian is trying to explain to you.

[ 01-14-2003, 06:01 AM: Message edited by: Grojlach ]
Grojlach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2003, 06:09 PM   #14
the sauceman
Zhentarim Guard
 

Join Date: April 16, 2002
Location: Southern Cali
Age: 39
Posts: 351
The man is trying to play a GAME the best way he knows how, dont beat him up because he isnt playing the game the way you think the game should be played.

Shame on you all!
__________________
<b>A Proud member of the Penguin Army!</b><br />A Member of <b><i>The Society of Songs and Silent Blades</i></b><br />The Sauceman Cometh...
the sauceman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2003, 10:59 PM   #15
Imrahil
Elminster
 

Join Date: November 4, 2001
Location: North Carolina, USA
Posts: 469
Quote:
Originally posted by Luvian:
quote:
Originally posted by Kakero:
ps. I know it's not realistic to just have 3 intelliect but this game is almost hack and slash. you can still finish the game even with 1 intellect. different kind of game need different kind of thinking you know.
Just because you can emploit the game engine does not mean you have to. How can you be proud of yourself after completing a game, if you exploited it? It's like playing poker with somone who does not know the rules, and inventing new hands. How can you then be proud of your victory? That cheating.[/QUOTE]While I completely agree with you in principle, & create my characters in the same vein that you do, I can't honestly fault people for exploiting the game engine. Rather, I see it as a fault of the game engine itself that there really aren't any penalties for having a 3 Int Fighter (or Monk, or Sorcerer!!!).

Granted, I would never recommend someone Min/Max when creating a character, but I wouldn't call it cheating. There absolutely *should* be drawbacks to creating such a dimwit character, but there aren't. Your analogy should, IMO, be modified to read "playing poker with someone who doesn't know what the Wild Cards are, but *should*". It's the game that's flawed for allowing it, not necessarily the players who use what's available to them (although, I must stress again, I don't do it myself & don't recommend it to anyone who really wants to enjoy the game).

- Imrahil
Imrahil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2003, 12:43 AM   #16
Luvian
Ironworks Moderator
 

Join Date: June 27, 2001
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Age: 42
Posts: 6,763
I'm just telling my opinion, I am not forcing anyone to play my way, and I'm certainly not beating anyone up.
Luvian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2003, 03:20 AM   #17
Dundee Slaytern
Ironworks Moderator
 

Join Date: June 10, 2001
Location: Pasir Ris, Singapore
Age: 41
Posts: 11,063
Actually... there is a difference between powergaming and outright cheating.

When a person powergames, he exploits every nook and cranny of the game and uses loopholes to the best of his advantage. Whatever he does is legitimate and not illegal. Ergo, he is not cheating, but he is certainly not roleplaying either.

When a person cheats, he uses tools to aid him in ways that were not possible in the first place, like maxing out every single stat to the max. Or give his characters the best equipment at the start of the game. Stuff like that.

In conclusion, the only thing that Kakero is guilty of, is powergaming, something that a lot of players do, but he is not cheating, and he is not exploiting any bug either.
Dundee Slaytern is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2003, 05:03 AM   #18
Kakero
40th Level Warrior
 

Join Date: March 24, 2002
Posts: 10,215
thanks Dundee, your explaination really hit the spot. how I wish my english is as good as yours. too bad there's no good japanese to english translator around.
powergaming...never heard that before. looks like I learn a new word today.

ps. I also learn that poker is cho tai ti. now I know. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 01-15-2003, 06:09 AM: Message edited by: Kakero ]
Kakero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2003, 09:03 AM   #19
Luvian
Ironworks Moderator
 

Join Date: June 27, 2001
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Age: 42
Posts: 6,763
Quote:
Originally posted by Dundee Slaytern:
Actually... there is a difference between powergaming and outright cheating.

When a person powergames, he exploits every nook and cranny of the game and uses loopholes to the best of his advantage. Whatever he does is legitimate and not illegal. Ergo, he is not cheating, but he is certainly not roleplaying either.

When a person cheats, he uses tools to aid him in ways that were not possible in the first place, like maxing out every single stat to the max. Or give his characters the best equipment at the start of the game. Stuff like that.

In conclusion, the only thing that Kakero is guilty of, is powergaming, something that a lot of players do, but he is not cheating, and he is not exploiting any bug either.
No, a powergamer is someone that always use what can give him the most power, or the most advantages, true, but not every powergamer exploit bugs and game engine's weakness. Using loopholes and bugs is only legitimate for someone of little concience and morals.

I have seen tons of posts in wich people said things like:
Quote:
If you chose option 4 of that npc, he's going to give you his quest reward, and then you talk to him again and get it again, you can do it all the time!!
Now, don't tell me this is not exploiting a bug. What about the spell "Magic Resistance" in Bladur's Gate II. It's suposed to stack with the creature's magic resistance, but everyone still use it on monsters because they know it will lower the monster's magic resistance, instead. Is this not exploiting? Is this legal? Do you think Devs intended it that way? Why are they patching that kind of things as soon as they learn about it? Just because something can be done, does not mean it's legal.

You are mixing exploiters and powergamers. Lots of powergamers exploit games, but not all powergamer do. I am a powergamer, but I don't use the game in ways it was not intended. I'm going to max my character primary stats, even if I know not all mages have the max int, or not all rogues have the max dext. I will choose what weapon skills to master based on the most powerfull weapons that are in the game. But I never will use things the way they are not intended.

Exploiting a game, and using an editor to max your stats is cheating in both case, it's just that one of those is a lot worse than the other.

Claiming anything else is a moral fallacy.
__________________
Once upon a time in Canada...
Luvian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2003, 10:47 PM   #20
Mitro Jellywadder
Quintesson
 

Join Date: September 5, 2001
Location: Florida
Age: 52
Posts: 1,016
I liked Dundee's explanation better. We only had two categories. Now, I have to try and figure out between exploiting, cheating, or being a powermonger...

Dundee: Good to see you're still around and kicking
Mitro Jellywadder is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
NWN2: Khelgar - to monk or not to monk, that is the question [minor spoilers] Memnoch Neverwinter Nights 1 & 2 Also SoU & HotU Forum 8 12-04-2006 05:45 AM
Dreadmaster-monk Vs. Lathander-monk Serak Moonblade Icewind Dale | Heart of Winter | Icewind Dale II Forum 19 02-09-2005 02:07 AM
wimp of a dog? Stormymystic General Conversation Archives (11/2000 - 01/2005) 0 04-28-2003 11:30 AM
What a wimp! White Lancer Icewind Dale | Heart of Winter | Icewind Dale II Forum 10 11-24-2002 04:07 PM
Kangaxx the Demi Lich What a Wimp He Is Harder As A Lich Sorcerer Dave Baldurs Gate II Archives 8 03-30-2001 05:25 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:40 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
©2024 Ironworks Gaming & ©2024 The Great Escape Studios TM - All Rights Reserved