new party

12-09-2003, 07:51 PM

the discussions around dual classing and the samurai have led me to start a new party, my first since the triple bishop party that died a painful, quiet death of boredom.

i realised that, given my playing style, hybrids simply cant work for me when i have a bishop or a pure with the same spell book. instead, the hybrid starts looking like a fighter, only not as good.

so, to compel myself, i've put together the following party

human bard
human samurai
human lord
human alchemist

the bard i plan to dual over to rogue at level 11 or so, taking the advice of another member here who pointed out that all the best instruments are available then (haste, soul shield, heal all).

the samurai spent her first three levels as a mage, and the lord spent her first three levels as a priest. 3 levels meant they could buy some level 2 spells (ie missile shield!) and have about 20 points in their spellbook when they start casting as a hybrid.

the alchemist will probably just remain an alchemist, primarily to add some magical firepower and mixing for dollars.

i did start the mage as a samurai and then replace her, so that i could get the katana from the start - not really a cheat, though, since it cost me 310 gold to re-equip the new mage!

the choice of all humans was because a) i've never done it, and b) the dual classing helped to have balanced stats to get away with early.

i'll use this thread to update you on their progress.

12-09-2003, 08:07 PM

a funny story from the first incarnation of the party:

we'd finished everything in the monastary and were all around level 7 waiting to hit the arnika road. we camped up in the computer room above the exit, figuring to leave first thing in the morning, rather than the middle of the night when the encounters can get pretty scary!

we walked down and went to open the door out when we were suddenly engaged. 7 level 8 pestilent rats with 70+ hit points engaged us (followed by the ever helpful message "camoflauged creature spotted!")

figuring we could use the experience, i didnt bother with a reload. it took some clever tactics, but we got through it, except with two (yes, TWO) party members diseased. yick. figuring we could get to arnika to heal up, we hit the road straight away. 4 hardshell crabs and 7 venom crabs posed no serious problem...

but then i noticed how slowly the two diseased party members were recovering stamina. oy! by this point, i'd written over the quick save slots, so we were stuck - go ahead or start over.

fortunately, the two diseased characters were the lord and sam (not the bard!), so we soldiered on.

by the time we hit the piercing pipes chest, i realised we had to have a proper camp. too many injuries, too much stamina drain, no mana points left, wanting to save our only mana potion for the road (just in case!), it was the prudent decision. we get interrupted, have to fight, and start camping all over again. by the time we wake, dusk has fallen - we dont want to be on the road at night!

camp through to morning and wake up to find the sam has lost stamina and the lord is blind and insane. (that's some disease!) no turning back though - arnika or bust!

we got lucky and were able to avoid all but one encounter on the way to arnika (5 70 hp highwaymen with us tucked nicely in a corner), and were pleased to discover the lord's insane swings at the party were relieved by her inability to hit anything because she was blind. we could use the small blessing!

braffit's pool eased the party's suffering in short time, but i realised that having my lord go 5 levels as a priest (to get rest all, magic screen, and armorplate as early as possible) meant she would spend all that productive time in arnika unable to learn from all the identifying that needed doing!

so we have started over and are back in the monastary. both hybrids dualled over from pure magic casters at level 3 (as originally described). we're all level 7 and heading to the upper monastary (we spent a little time getting experience on the lower level

)

it's a long haul to level 8, but it would be nice if we could all be there when we hit the road, so that the sam and lord can start spell casting in earnest.

Ziggurat · 12-09-2003, 09:32 PM

Sultan - Interesting. I think I would have started over like you given the circumstances. I really hate getting diseased. I think some losses may be permanent if you don't treat it in a certain time. At least, that's what happened in Wiz 7. I think we have different save game strategies, but I have made some saves I regretted as well. Keep up the narrative, it looks like you're on to a good start and I like the mix you have.

Edit: I also agree if you have a bishop it spoils the development of the hybrids. You need to force them to use magic whenever possible. It's too easy to melee and shoot.

[ 12-09-2003, 09:45 PM: Message edited by: Ziggurat ]

Loudhy · 12-10-2003, 12:09 AM

One question, Sultan. You have an alchemist in your party. At level 7 an alchemist is usually able to create Cure Disease potions. Didn't you have the necessary ingredients or why did you try to reach Arnika with a diseased party ?

[img]graemlins/monster5.gif[/img]

12-10-2003, 01:09 AM

damn fine question loudhy - to be honest, i didnt even think of it! i wasnt pushing my alchemy skill, but it was probably pretty near or over 40, so... damn! well if that happens THIS time in the upper monastary, i'm ready!!

Wild Rose · 12-10-2003, 04:16 AM

I think we all do the wrong things, like forgetting to make Cure Disease at the Monastery. That is what makes the game so good. You learn one set of players really well, but another group has to be played very very differently. Endless combinations. The one thing I learned playing D&D is NEVER REST WHEN POISONED OR DISEASED!

Good Luck with your new party Sultan.

12-10-2003, 05:34 PM

cheers, rose.

as luck would have it, we hit the upper monastary and were greeted by... pestilent rats! only the bard got diseased this time, but i have to say we were lucky to get through it. and, with loudhy's help, made a cure disease right on the spot (couldnt identify it, but it didnt matter).

in any event, the crew finished the upper monastary and the pure/hybrids were about 15k short of level 8, which opens up spell learning for them again. i wanted it available for the road, so down to the lower level...

wander... wander... 1 wolf spider, 565 xp each... sigh...

wander... 4 wolf spiders, 2k xp each...

sigh... wander.... wander... 3 green slimes, 1 languid slime, 1 pustulant slime, 3k xp each...

sigh... wander... wander...

the danger during this is to get too complacent - everything is so easy and the halls look monotonous, you can forget good principles. if your buffs are running low, or your stamina or mana is down, go to ground. otherwise, you'll be nearly exhausted when confronted by...

9 metallic slimes (90 hp each) and 1 level 10, 145 hp slime (later found out to be emerald slime).

gack. fortunately, i had heeded my own advice and had just gotten up from a camp with everyone full stocked and charged. suffice to say it took every last trick i could think of (god bless the poet's lute - we were able to back off around a corner to rest and heal, twice) and in the end, were about 9-10k over what we needed to level - the bard is half way to level 9 now!

so we did another campy-poo above the way out, came down, no surprises, and will hit the arnika road when next we go.

overall, i'm pleased. i'm really looking forward to getting the spellcasting of the hybrids up. before, i was intending to just develop the realms for their buffs (eg air, mental and divine for the mage/sam, water, mental and divine for the priest/lord), but now i'm thinking some extra damage from the mage (fireball!) and that web spell from the lord would be nice. so we'll see.

the alchemist already has 50 from the casting and few bits i've mixed, and with 20 ranged and 30 throwing, i cant wait to get him some impaling stones and a wrist rocket. he's been mostly a utility character though (stamina/heal) because his mass attacks (noxious fumes and whipping rocks) wake up everyone the bard just put to sleep. but hopefully that will turn around now that he has fire bomb and acid bomb, and the bard is about to get the pipes.

the bard is, of course, excellent. she's got around 45 in music and already found ariel's slippers and prospero's cloak. i wanted to dual her over to rogue at level 12, and she needs around 60 in music to use the key items at level 11 (dulcimer of mending and arresting aria), but i know she needs higher to avoid fumbles and get it at a high level. does anyone know how much higher? 70? 80??

cheers

Wild Rose · 12-11-2003, 12:28 AM

As you say - gack -!!!

It seems bard fumbles depend on what instrament. My bard fumbled recently on pandamonium pipes with well over 80 (don't remember exactly, maybe 90+) And the slow drums always seemed to backfire while the pircing pipes never seem to.

Good luck on the road.

Loudhy · 12-11-2003, 12:44 AM

Hi Sultan,

seems to me, you have lots of bad luck. I havn't seen Pestilent Rats in all of my games without magic-users ( fortunatly ). But I once met Vampire Bats . I fled, because I had no chance with my Lvl 7 party.
It is not good to be drained in that stage of the game .

Greetings

[img]graemlins/monster5.gif[/img]

12-11-2003, 12:52 AM

wild rose - i figure fumbling has to do with having a certain amount of skill above the minimum requirements to use it: the closer to the minimum you are, the more you fumble, but i'm not sure at what point fumbling becomes a non-issue... 10 points more? 30?

so for the dulcimer of mending, which has a minimum of 60, do i need 70 to avoid fumbles? or 90?

loudhy - i think a lot of it has to do with the fact that i'm hanging about long after i should have left. even with my usual small parties, i'm on the arnika road before level 7 (or just at), and dont go back downstairs to even find out what would be waiting!

having said that, getting the bunches of encounters together was a bit of a shocker. i'd say they were definitely intended to be 3 encounters - the metallic slimes were from opposited ends of the hall, and the emerald slime was even further back down one hall. unfortunately, those suckers take a long time to chop away at, so i couldnt clear one group before the next - however, that sleep lute made all the difference (as did having two casters with stamina to keep the bard awake and swingin when she wasnt singin

)

12-09-2003, 09:32 PM	#3
Ziggurat Symbol of Cyric Join Date: November 4, 2001 Location: Baltimore, Md Age: 70 Posts: 1,106	Sultan - Interesting. I think I would have started over like you given the circumstances. I really hate getting diseased. I think some losses may be permanent if you don't treat it in a certain time. At least, that's what happened in Wiz 7. I think we have different save game strategies, but I have made some saves I regretted as well. Keep up the narrative, it looks like you're on to a good start and I like the mix you have. Edit: I also agree if you have a bishop it spoils the development of the hybrids. You need to force them to use magic whenever possible. It's too easy to melee and shoot. [ 12-09-2003, 09:45 PM: Message edited by: Ziggurat ] __________________ How are you today, Citizen?

12-10-2003, 04:16 AM	#6
Wild Rose Dungeon Master Join Date: September 9, 2003 Location: Home Age: 79 Posts: 90	I think we all do the wrong things, like forgetting to make Cure Disease at the Monastery. That is what makes the game so good. You learn one set of players really well, but another group has to be played very very differently. Endless combinations. The one thing I learned playing D&D is NEVER REST WHEN POISONED OR DISEASED! Good Luck with your new party Sultan. __________________ Pratice is what makes the impossible possible - Czerny

12-11-2003, 12:28 AM	#8
Wild Rose Dungeon Master Join Date: September 9, 2003 Location: Home Age: 79 Posts: 90	As you say - gack -!!! It seems bard fumbles depend on what instrament. My bard fumbled recently on pandamonium pipes with well over 80 (don't remember exactly, maybe 90+) And the slow drums always seemed to backfire while the pircing pipes never seem to. Good luck on the road. __________________ Pratice is what makes the impossible possible - Czerny

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12-09-2003, 07:51 PM	#1
sultan Guest Posts: n/a	the discussions around dual classing and the samurai have led me to start a new party, my first since the triple bishop party that died a painful, quiet death of boredom. i realised that, given my playing style, hybrids simply cant work for me when i have a bishop or a pure with the same spell book. instead, the hybrid starts looking like a fighter, only not as good. so, to compel myself, i've put together the following party human bard human samurai human lord human alchemist the bard i plan to dual over to rogue at level 11 or so, taking the advice of another member here who pointed out that all the best instruments are available then (haste, soul shield, heal all). the samurai spent her first three levels as a mage, and the lord spent her first three levels as a priest. 3 levels meant they could buy some level 2 spells (ie missile shield!) and have about 20 points in their spellbook when they start casting as a hybrid. the alchemist will probably just remain an alchemist, primarily to add some magical firepower and mixing for dollars. i did start the mage as a samurai and then replace her, so that i could get the katana from the start - not really a cheat, though, since it cost me 310 gold to re-equip the new mage! the choice of all humans was because a) i've never done it, and b) the dual classing helped to have balanced stats to get away with early. i'll use this thread to update you on their progress.

12-09-2003, 08:07 PM	#2
sultan Guest Posts: n/a	a funny story from the first incarnation of the party: we'd finished everything in the monastary and were all around level 7 waiting to hit the arnika road. we camped up in the computer room above the exit, figuring to leave first thing in the morning, rather than the middle of the night when the encounters can get pretty scary! we walked down and went to open the door out when we were suddenly engaged. 7 level 8 pestilent rats with 70+ hit points engaged us (followed by the ever helpful message "camoflauged creature spotted!") figuring we could use the experience, i didnt bother with a reload. it took some clever tactics, but we got through it, except with two (yes, TWO) party members diseased. yick. figuring we could get to arnika to heal up, we hit the road straight away. 4 hardshell crabs and 7 venom crabs posed no serious problem... but then i noticed how slowly the two diseased party members were recovering stamina. oy! by this point, i'd written over the quick save slots, so we were stuck - go ahead or start over. fortunately, the two diseased characters were the lord and sam (not the bard!), so we soldiered on. by the time we hit the piercing pipes chest, i realised we had to have a proper camp. too many injuries, too much stamina drain, no mana points left, wanting to save our only mana potion for the road (just in case!), it was the prudent decision. we get interrupted, have to fight, and start camping all over again. by the time we wake, dusk has fallen - we dont want to be on the road at night! camp through to morning and wake up to find the sam has lost stamina and the lord is blind and insane. (that's some disease!) no turning back though - arnika or bust! we got lucky and were able to avoid all but one encounter on the way to arnika (5 70 hp highwaymen with us tucked nicely in a corner), and were pleased to discover the lord's insane swings at the party were relieved by her inability to hit anything because she was blind. we could use the small blessing! braffit's pool eased the party's suffering in short time, but i realised that having my lord go 5 levels as a priest (to get rest all, magic screen, and armorplate as early as possible) meant she would spend all that productive time in arnika unable to learn from all the identifying that needed doing! so we have started over and are back in the monastary. both hybrids dualled over from pure magic casters at level 3 (as originally described). we're all level 7 and heading to the upper monastary (we spent a little time getting experience on the lower level ) it's a long haul to level 8, but it would be nice if we could all be there when we hit the road, so that the sam and lord can start spell casting in earnest.

12-10-2003, 12:09 AM	#4
Loudhy Drizzt Do'Urden Join Date: September 3, 2003 Location: Köln Germany Age: 68 Posts: 692	One question, Sultan. You have an alchemist in your party. At level 7 an alchemist is usually able to create Cure Disease potions. Didn't you have the necessary ingredients or why did you try to reach Arnika with a diseased party ? [img]graemlins/monster5.gif[/img]

12-10-2003, 01:09 AM	#5
sultan Guest Posts: n/a	damn fine question loudhy - to be honest, i didnt even think of it! i wasnt pushing my alchemy skill, but it was probably pretty near or over 40, so... damn! well if that happens THIS time in the upper monastary, i'm ready!!

12-10-2003, 05:34 PM	#7
sultan Guest Posts: n/a	cheers, rose. as luck would have it, we hit the upper monastary and were greeted by... pestilent rats! only the bard got diseased this time, but i have to say we were lucky to get through it. and, with loudhy's help, made a cure disease right on the spot (couldnt identify it, but it didnt matter). in any event, the crew finished the upper monastary and the pure/hybrids were about 15k short of level 8, which opens up spell learning for them again. i wanted it available for the road, so down to the lower level... wander... wander... 1 wolf spider, 565 xp each... sigh... wander... 4 wolf spiders, 2k xp each... sigh... wander.... wander... 3 green slimes, 1 languid slime, 1 pustulant slime, 3k xp each... sigh... wander... wander... the danger during this is to get too complacent - everything is so easy and the halls look monotonous, you can forget good principles. if your buffs are running low, or your stamina or mana is down, go to ground. otherwise, you'll be nearly exhausted when confronted by... 9 metallic slimes (90 hp each) and 1 level 10, 145 hp slime (later found out to be emerald slime). gack. fortunately, i had heeded my own advice and had just gotten up from a camp with everyone full stocked and charged. suffice to say it took every last trick i could think of (god bless the poet's lute - we were able to back off around a corner to rest and heal, twice) and in the end, were about 9-10k over what we needed to level - the bard is half way to level 9 now! so we did another campy-poo above the way out, came down, no surprises, and will hit the arnika road when next we go. overall, i'm pleased. i'm really looking forward to getting the spellcasting of the hybrids up. before, i was intending to just develop the realms for their buffs (eg air, mental and divine for the mage/sam, water, mental and divine for the priest/lord), but now i'm thinking some extra damage from the mage (fireball!) and that web spell from the lord would be nice. so we'll see. the alchemist already has 50 from the casting and few bits i've mixed, and with 20 ranged and 30 throwing, i cant wait to get him some impaling stones and a wrist rocket. he's been mostly a utility character though (stamina/heal) because his mass attacks (noxious fumes and whipping rocks) wake up everyone the bard just put to sleep. but hopefully that will turn around now that he has fire bomb and acid bomb, and the bard is about to get the pipes. the bard is, of course, excellent. she's got around 45 in music and already found ariel's slippers and prospero's cloak. i wanted to dual her over to rogue at level 12, and she needs around 60 in music to use the key items at level 11 (dulcimer of mending and arresting aria), but i know she needs higher to avoid fumbles and get it at a high level. does anyone know how much higher? 70? 80?? cheers

12-11-2003, 12:44 AM	#9
Loudhy Drizzt Do'Urden Join Date: September 3, 2003 Location: Köln Germany Age: 68 Posts: 692	Hi Sultan, seems to me, you have lots of bad luck. I havn't seen Pestilent Rats in all of my games without magic-users ( fortunatly ). But I once met Vampire Bats . I fled, because I had no chance with my Lvl 7 party. It is not good to be drained in that stage of the game . Greetings [img]graemlins/monster5.gif[/img]

12-11-2003, 12:52 AM	#10
sultan Guest Posts: n/a	wild rose - i figure fumbling has to do with having a certain amount of skill above the minimum requirements to use it: the closer to the minimum you are, the more you fumble, but i'm not sure at what point fumbling becomes a non-issue... 10 points more? 30? so for the dulcimer of mending, which has a minimum of 60, do i need 70 to avoid fumbles? or 90? loudhy - i think a lot of it has to do with the fact that i'm hanging about long after i should have left. even with my usual small parties, i'm on the arnika road before level 7 (or just at), and dont go back downstairs to even find out what would be waiting! having said that, getting the bunches of encounters together was a bit of a shocker. i'd say they were definitely intended to be 3 encounters - the metallic slimes were from opposited ends of the hall, and the emerald slime was even further back down one hall. unfortunately, those suckers take a long time to chop away at, so i couldnt clear one group before the next - however, that sleep lute made all the difference (as did having two casters with stamina to keep the bard awake and swingin when she wasnt singin )

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