Olympic Pairs Figure Skating (sorry I need to vent)

[Victor von Steiner]

MagiK. The atheletes are not complaining they never said anything about being robbed. It is the public and the media that are saying they were robbed.

[Ryanamur]

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Originally posted by MagiK:
Ya know..one part of sports that is most often forgotten is sportsmanship...whining and complainging after the fact is generally considered POOR sportsmanship...if there is a legitimate complaint there are proper ways of addressing the issues...publicly declaiming you were robbed or the judges didn't like you and so forth come under the heading of poor sportsmanship.....just an opposing view.

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Did you see the Russians on the podium last night? They looked like they knew that they didn't belong there! Poor sportsmanship is a fine concept. If you ask me, it would be poor sportmanship to attack the Russians who, like them, are just caught in this mess. It's another matter to just state that you don't feel that the judge were impartial!

If you have some very important and knowledgeable persons in the world of figure skating overtly stating that the judges didn't do their job. There's nothing wrong in going after the judges. When Scott Hamilton, Barbara Underhill, Sally Rehorick and many others clairly state that it was a mistake and that the gold should go to Canada. They have a case.

Now, the ISU just opened a can of worm. In the last few years, figure skating interest has been on the rise. By overtly awarding the gold to the team that should have place second, they have put the world opinion against them. Last night was a blow to many spectators and figure skaters and it will hurt them bad! It's just too bad that such a wonderfull sport filled by amazing athletes is plaged by partial and incomptent judges!


[ 02-12-2002: Message edited by: Ryanamur ]

[ 02-12-2002: Message edited by: Ryanamur ]

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Originally posted by Pangur Ban:


It might come as a surprise to most people, but costume has almost no influence on marks for artistic presentation in most competitions, including the Winter Olympics.

No points are ever added to artistic scores because of costumes,
but there may be a small points deduction for a breach of costume rules. ( Examples: Ladies costumes must include a skirt, and cannot show a bare midriff. Men cannot wear tights ) A deduction for costume is *very* rare, as all skaters know what these rules are !!

I know this info as accurate, as ( recently ) retired international figure skating judge for Australia was a guest-of-honour at a seminar held by our ice skating club. He gave us a presentation, and showed us all a video on how skating marks are awarded.

Pang [img]graemlins/cat3.gif[/img]

[ 02-12-2002: Message edited by: Pangur Ban ]

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In my subsequent reply, I did mention that the routine they skated was already two years old...pretty hard to mess up something that they can probably do in their sleep but I think had they presented themselves in a more glamourous fashion (this includes a routine fitting of Olympic competition) and showed more sportsmanship (...that crash during warm-ups, where she said she didn't see him...bull 'cause she turned and headed straight for him and then played it up saying she was punched in the stomach, in pain and fighting in spite of it to do her best, blah blah blah was total drama) then they might have been awarded the gold.
I never said they were docked for not looking better, just stated that they ought to have looked better than they did.
I think the Canadian man ought to get a new partner and toss that mixture of Nancy Kerigan and Tanya Harding that he is currently saddled with.

I've also seen many reports aired today about investigations into the judging through proof in the past that it has not always been on the level. As long as money can be made, it never will be but the athletes involved ought to at least do their best to present themselves, in their sport, in the best light possible...something the Canadians did not do IMO.

I'm not knocking their ability here so don't anyone get upset, please.
They skated beautifully, a routine that they have been skating long enough for it to be that perfect. They are not the first couple to lose in competition for that reason and I doubt they'll be the last.

[Ryanamur]

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Originally posted by Moni:


In my subsequent reply, I did mention that the routine they skated was already two years old...pretty hard to mess up something that they can probably do in their sleep but I think had they presented themselves in a more glamourous fashion (this includes a routine fitting of Olympic competition) and showed more sportsmanship (...that crash during warm-ups, where she said she didn't see him...bull 'cause she turned and headed straight for him and then played it up saying she was punched in the stomach, in pain and fighting in spite of it to do her best, blah blah blah was total drama) then they might have been awarded the gold.
I never said they were docked for not looking better, just stated that they ought to have looked better than they did.
I think the Canadian man ought to get a new partner and toss that mixture of Nancy Kerigan and Tanya Harding that he is currently saddled with.

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Moni, I think you got a few facts mixed up. First, she never said that she got punched in the stomac. She did however say that she had the wind knocked out of her like if she would have been punched in the stomac. Big difference. As for the accident, that's just what it was. He was skating forward and she was skating backwards. Just as she turned back, she saw the Russians pop into her field of view. As far as the Russians, the are just as innocent into the accident. He was skating forward and turned his head just as she popped into his field of view. If you look at the replay, you can clearly see that they both realized that they were gonna collide at the same time. It was an unfortunate accident. No guilty party in this one.

I don't recall them going after the Russians at all. Could you please refresh my memory on that one Moni?

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Originally posted by Ryanamur:


Moni, I think you got a few facts mixed up. First, she never said that she got punched in the stomac. She did however say that she had the wind knocked out of her like if she would have been punched in the stomac. Big difference. As for the accident, that's just what it was. He was skating forward and she was skating backwards. Just as she turned back, she saw the Russians pop into her field of view. As far as the Russians, the are just as innocent into the accident. He was skating forward and turned his head just as she popped into his field of view. If you look at the replay, you can clearly see that they both realized that they were gonna collide at the same time. It was an unfortunate accident. No guilty party in this one.

I don't recall them going after the Russians at all. Could you please refresh my memory on that one Moni?

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The interview Rex and I saw, she said quite clearly, "I was punched in the stomach. I was in a lot of pain." Which she followed with some dramatic overplay of fighting against the pain to go out there and skate in the Olympics, playing it up the best she could, like she should have never been out there after the collision, but did it because she is a champion, a star, and must go on.

I don't understand your question about them going after the Russians. What do you mean, like they were making a blatent attempt to take them out of competition in the crash? If so, I never said that, I just said it was bull...from the replay we saw here, she turned and was facing him before she ploughed into him and fell to the ice clutching her stomach. I thought it looked fake, Rex thought it looked fake, we both agreed that it looked like she had time to have moved and avoided the collision, but she saw an opportunity for more drama and took it.

[Ronn_Bman]

The Canadians WERE robbed! It was a setup.

It's been reported that the French judge has said she was told to vote for the Russians, and a Russian judge would vote for the French team in a later event. (I can't remember which one)

The Canadian team was the clear winner.

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Originally posted by Ryanamur:
Adam, it's on their sports webpage. The results were quite astonishing.

21709 votes.

92% for Canada
5% for Russia
3% for China


[ 02-12-2002: Message edited by: Ryanamur ]

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How many Canadian's vs how many Russians vs How many Chinese had the chance to vote? Most of China and Russia are without the internet resources to take part in those things...seems kind of...pointless to ask how many canadians would vote for the canadian team [img]smile.gif[/img]

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Originally posted by Victor von Steiner:
MagiK. The atheletes are not complaining they never said anything about being robbed. It is the public and the media that are saying they were robbed.

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I must apologize here..I saw a Skater interviewed who complained bitterly..I thought it was one of the canadian skaters..then it turned out the person I saw interviewed was a skater who didnt even make the Olympic team. My bad..I retract my statement about poor sportsmanship on the Canadian skaters part.

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Originally posted by Ryanamur:


Did you see the Russians on the podium last night? They looked like they knew that they didn't belong there! Poor sportsmanship is a fine concept. If you ask me, it would be poor sportmanship to attack the Russians who, like them, are just caught in this mess. It's another matter to just state that you don't feel that the judge were impartial!

If you have some very important and knowledgeable persons in the world of figure skating overtly stating that the judges didn't do their job. There's nothing wrong in going after the judges. When Scott Hamilton, Barbara Underhill, Sally Rehorick and many others clairly state that it was a mistake and that the gold should go to Canada. They have a case.

Now, the ISU just opened a can of worm. In the last few years, figure skating interest has been on the rise. By overtly awarding the gold to the team that should have place second, they have put the world opinion against them. Last night was a blow to many spectators and figure skaters and it will hurt them bad! It's just too bad that such a wonderfull sport filled by amazing athletes is plaged by partial and incomptent judges!


[ 02-12-2002: Message edited by: Ryanamur ]

[ 02-12-2002: Message edited by: Ryanamur ]

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You are quite correct, as per my other post..I recently found out that it wasnt the Canadian skaters who were complaining..I saw an interview and made an assumption....My bad!

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Originally posted by Ronn_Bman:
The Canadians WERE robbed! It was a setup.

It's been reported that the French judge has said she was told to vote for the Russians, and a Russian judge would vote for the French team in a later event. (I can't remember which one)

The Canadian team was the clear winner.

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Those Judges better be immediately removed from the committee and barred from ever judgeing an event again!