Religion Thread II (originally posted by Callum Kerr)

[Grungi]

religion is frequently the cause of destruction but always through people, but then whose to blame the religion or the people? that one could go on for millenia,.... oops already has [img]tongue.gif[/img]

but whatever you reckon on marx some of his ideas did hit home.

IMO humans are to blame constantly and citing religion is just an excuse.
Fanatiscm though is something that makes my blood boil, not much can get me really truly angry, but fanatics normally do the job, i tend to want to sit them down and beat into them that their ideals may be all well and good but dont force them on other people cos we dont like it esp dont use bombs & violence to make the point, mmmmmm give me a room and bin laden and no law, id be a happy man.

[Cloudbringer]

Originally posted by Grungi: [QB]jewish religion was originally christians but now its gone a little well for want of a better word, weird... like they are only allowed to marry other jews or its frowned upon not to, that wasnt the case in the long distant past, whats the deal with the beards and the black coats? none of that is a religious thing, its all cultural, jews today are totally different from the original jewish faith, i wonder why it changed, anyone know?

Grunji, if you ever wonder why people seem to jump all over you in religion discussions....well, this is a prime example of why. Your facts are jumbled and you seem to just be talking without thinking or knowing what it is you are saying. Guess you had a stream of consciousness moment again. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Christianity came LONG after Judaism not the other way around! And only SOME Christians were former Jews, there were plenty of Gentiles who converted as Christianity took hold. [img]smile.gif[/img] As for the comments on clothing and personal hygeine, well, I'm not an expert on Jewish religious or cultural practices so I can't explain the details, but I do know there are reasons for such things. [img]smile.gif[/img] And as for changing....well, societies change and sometimes our perceptions of peoples and cultures and yes, religions, change over the centuries as well.

[The Hierophant]

Originally posted by Grungi: IMO humans are to blame constantly and citing religion is just an excuse. Fanatiscm though is something that makes my blood boil, not much can get me really truly angry, but fanatics normally do the job, i tend to want to sit them down and beat into them that their ideals may be all well and good but dont force them on other people cos we dont like it esp dont use bombs & violence to make the point, mmmmmm give me a room and bin laden and no law, id be a happy man.

So you think fanatics are wrong and you want to violently force your viewpoint on them. Yeah...ok man. You do that then. Sounds like you already are what you despise.

[Garnet FalconDance]

Sorry, grunji...I'm with the Hierophant on this one. Not to equate you with such extremists as the Taliban (or fill-in-the-blank with any other extremist group you can think of) but such a statement illustrates yet again that it is not religion that destroys---it is people and their interpretation. You are vehemently opposed to bin Laden and his cronies......yet they act on their take on Islam (warped as it may be to the rest of Allah's followers). I do not agree with him/them and while, quite honestly, I'd be standing in line to rid the world of such people, I am also not willing to force my beliefs on them in replacement because I think mine are better or more 'right'. I am opposed to the actions that cause such horror and suffering to an otherwise innocent group of individuals, all in the name of religion.

If I, as a witch, tried to force you to believe the way I did or else..........Oh wait a minute. I think that idea has been tried in reverse (the Church vs. pagans)---with rather tragic consequences. Who was right? Depends on who you ask, now doesn't it.

[Grungi]

cloudbringer note the big question mark, im asking WHY not saying how it is.... id really like to know why, shouldnt make me the target of flames when im asking an honest question I know alot about most religions but recent judaism i profess to know fck all and would be nice to have that knowledge [img]tongue.gif[/img]

and judiasm IMO was christianity, they both evolved from each other, thats just my take on it, just the names and slight differences is all that seperates what biblically is the same religion. As usual i didnt put it quite what i meant, i consider christianity to be the bible from the begining adam and eve onwards, ie god from start to finish, therefore the jews who many centuries millenia later were also following that path are also under christianity. Just judaism has become very different again culturally (not religiously) and i dont get why, because back in roman times, i dont think they had those beards or the long black coats, so where did that come from and why?

and no i dont want to force my viewpoint on bin laden, i want to rend him limb from limb, i dont consider myself a fanatic though, i only react to what he has done, thats a big big difference, i despise people who attack other people first because they think they are right to do so, id kill bin laden because of what hes done, not because of what he believes in i dont think any less of myself for wanting that. If i went up to someone and attacked them because they dont share the same belief as me THEN id despise myself.

[Grungi]

so garnet basically the way i see it is im not anything like any group because i DONT force my beliefs on other people, i think everyone can believe what they want until they try and force it on others, then your crossing a line you shouldnt cross, the taliban forced women and children to obey their laws and customs which restrict freedom, because they restrict freedom i consider it wrong, and any religion or culture that does this i consider wrong, laws are there to protect and should be well reasoned, ie its fair enough to say you cant drive over 30miles an hour because thats a well reasoned argument and affects the safety of others, but to make a woman wear a veil on threat of stoning to death? thats wrong, thats plain wrong and anyone who doesnt see the difference isnt capable of reading IMO. What does wearing a veil or lack of do to harm others? it should be the womans choice not some guy who feels like exerting authority.

So i hope you reconsider your opinion of me, i never gone around telling other people what they can or cant do, nor do i discount any religion without very good reason, bin laden is an evil terriorist ■■■■ forget religion, that doesnt even come into it, hes just an evil bastad, and nowhere in his religion does anything justify what he did. I believe he deserves instant death, but i have a strong view on that, take a life deliberately without reason and you should lose a life, thats my opinion and if i was a dictator yes id force that issue given proof, so in that respect maybe i am bad, but then theres no "good" way of doing anything in this life.

I just watched the HBO George Carlin Special last night [img]smile.gif[/img] I think he did quite well at condensing the 10 commandments [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Cloudbringer]

Well, Grungi, you're hoplessly misguided or misinformed. Christianity was born of the events in the NEW TESTAMENT and followed Judaism, which it built upon and moved away from in several key areas.

I'm sorry, I'm at work now so I can't give you a religion lesson . Maybe you should go to your local library or look up such things online. Do some serious research if you are interested in such things. By making rash statements not founded in fact, you do open yourself up to criticism.

[Grungi]

sorry to post again but rereading you both have the impression i want bin laden to be a christian? or to basically force him to believe the same as me? thats totally not what im saying, if the last two posts didnt clear it up, i dont CARE What he believes, he can believe anything he likes, he can believe murdering and raping children is the way to god, and i wont like it but its his belief so i wont argue with it, BUT if he actually DOES IT then i have a problem then i feel im in my rights to take action.

i dont want to force anyone to believe things the same way i do, my beliefs are unique and mine only and i dont want the rest of the world being the same as me, im happy in my uniqueness, but when you cross the line and murder, rape, torture or otherwise hurt someone else deliberately because of your beliefs then you have gone too far and should be brought to task and honestly, id enjoy (strange word to use i admit but im being honest [img]tongue.gif[/img] ) being the one to do it.

[Grungi]

cloud read! pls read what im saying its not misinformed or misjudged i belief its the same, thats my opinion, they worship the same god, tell the same history, i believe whatever you call it, christians, jews, muslims whatever its all the same thing, thats my view on it, and you cant argue with it, its my opinion and wont change, its well informed because i have read the main books etc, even sikh, hindu etc, religion is religion its all the same thing is what i believe, just the way humans carry it out is different, all the gods of the hindu faith for example combine to create one divine being composed of many parts, so again GOD, you see what im getting at? im NOT saying christianity IS judaism, im saying for me they represent the same thing, ah fck its hard to explain on here.

what i believe is different about religion is the cultural aspect and what the people say and do, and thats where problems begin, and im asking a simple question on why the jews do things like they do, can someone jewish please answer me the question thats the only religious teaching id like to hear today