Population vs Mismanagement continued...

[Diogenes Of Pumpkintown]

Jumping in for Fljotsdale :

Yorick we aren't claiming that overpopulation is the ONLY cause of the current stress on the environment. That would be absurd.

It is equally absurd to deny that overpopulation does in fact play a role in our current situation.

It is a simple fact of ecology that a population (of ANY species) can increase to the point where it overtaxes its environment. This frequently happens in nature, on a cyclical basis. And other species do it with NO technology whatsoever, just from the simple fact that their numbers have increased to the point where there is not enough habitat/food to go around. That is all that is involved, on the most basic level. You cannot claim that it is just a matter of misuse of technology.

[Diogenes Of Pumpkintown]

Originally posted by Yorick: Oh, as an afterthough.. "fill the earth" has hardly been done. There are vast, vast areas of land scarcely populated. Climate should make no difference to anyone now. Airconditioned or centrally heated houses, cars, malls, subways. Humanity could build a domed city in Antarctica if we really wanted to - such is the technology.

ARRGGGGHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!

Please tell me you aren't serious.

Some people might see the prospect of a science fiction like Earth paved over entirely, with humans living entirely in artifical conditions and domed cities, as an acceptable prospect. I am not one of them. That sounds like hell to me.

Yorik just a comment on "ecofriendly" wind farms. Its been tried and failed. California has a truely huge windfarm that can barley break even. Also you ignore the real side effects of windfarms. On a large scale they alter windspeeds and change the weather wreaking havoc on weather patterns just as surely as greenhouse gasses. They have also tried tapping wave energy and have managed to totaly wrek several marine environments by altering the averaqe tidal forces in the area...the only true solution is to do away with mankind...we are evil greedy..messy ....hmmmm Hey I like people....so the planet is stuck with us untill we kill ourselves off or a friendly asteroid does it for us

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Disintigration is easy, If you really want to impress me, ReIntegrate it.

Originally posted by MagiK: [ Asteroid mining is a theoretical possibility in the not too distant future as is mining the moon. [/B]

Good, good, good! Having personally crated several of fallen debri I can tell you that they are mostly metals of sorts. I could not even lift one by myself that was smaller than a basketball! I am sure they vary in substance but a good viable source for all kinds of things! Since they are already tempered and packaged..what else could we ask for.

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*\Conan/* Waterman of the LH

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Diogenes Of Pumpkintown: ARRGGGGHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!! Please tell me you aren't serious. Some people might see the prospect of a science fiction like Earth paved over entirely, with humans living entirely in artifical conditions and domed cities, as an acceptable prospect. I am not one of them. That sounds like hell to me.

Just making a point Diogenes. I doubt the earth will ever be "filled".



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I am the walrus!.... er, no hang on....

A fair dinkum laughing Hyena!

[Kaz]

Question: Has anybody heard about the idea of making a car that runs on hydrogen and oxygen? Theoretically, the only waste product would be water. I don't know too much about this subject, haven't been able to find much information about it (the little I know comes from the Expo 2000) Anybody enlighten me?

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I am the great Kazara

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Diogenes Of Pumpkintown: Jumping in for Fljotsdale : Yorick we aren't claiming that overpopulation is the ONLY cause of the current stress on the environment. That would be absurd. It is equally absurd to deny that overpopulation does in fact play a role in our current situation. It is a simple fact of ecology that a population (of ANY species) can increase to the point where it overtaxes its environment. This frequently happens in nature, on a cyclical basis. And other species do it with NO technology whatsoever, just from the simple fact that their numbers have increased to the point where there is not enough habitat/food to go around. That is all that is involved, on the most basic level. You cannot claim that it is just a matter of misuse of technology.

I disagree. Not all cultures exploited the earth with the disregard ours does today and has done for ages. Sadly all of those perished at the hands of city dwelling cultures. Without the advantage of technology, food levels and environmental factors create checks and balances that curb the explosive growth and sudden increase in demands. A fish only grows to the size it's tank allows.

Humans have survived on much less meat for example than we eat today. More demand for meat means more cows, more methane from cow poo (& bigger ozone hole), less grain for other foods, and more land used for growing cows.

Solution - eat less meat. No need to be a vegitarian or vegan, just eat it much less.

But then that requires individual change doesn't it. We can't have that.

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I am the walrus!.... er, no hang on....

A fair dinkum laughing Hyena!

[This message has been edited by Yorick (edited 09-06-2001).]

[Yorick]

Originally posted by MagiK: Yorik just a comment on "ecofriendly" wind farms. Its been tried and failed. California has a truely huge windfarm that can barley break even. Also you ignore the real side effects of windfarms. On a large scale they alter windspeeds and change the weather wreaking havoc on weather patterns just as surely as greenhouse gasses. They have also tried tapping wave energy and have managed to totaly wrek several marine environments by altering the averaqe tidal forces in the area...the only true solution is to do away with mankind...we are evil greedy..messy ....hmmmm Hey I like people....so the planet is stuck with us untill we kill ourselves off or a friendly asteroid does it for us

They seem to be working in south eastern Australia ok. Regardless huge solar panels out in the desrt regions are harldy going to cause the damage a nuclear plants problem does (read Chernobyl).


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I am the walrus!.... er, no hang on....

A fair dinkum laughing Hyena!

LOL I hadn't thought about the asteroid material as being pre-tempered hopefully we will work on a less violent method of getting the material down than just letting it scream in through the atmosphere

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Disintigration is easy, If you really want to impress me, ReIntegrate it.

[Diogenes Of Pumpkintown]

Originally posted by Yorick: I disagree. Not all cultures exploited the earth with the disregard ours does today and has done for ages. Sadly all of those perished at the hands of city dwelling cultures. Without the advantage of technology, food levels and environmental factors create checks and balances that curb the explosive growth and sudden increase in demands. A fish only grows to the size it's tank allows. Humans have survived on much less meat for example than we eat today. More demand for meat means more cows, more methane from cow poo (& bigger ozone hole), less grain for other foods, and more land used for growing cows. Solution - eat less meat. No need to be a vegitarian or vegan, just eat it much less. But then that requires individual change doesn't it. We can't have that.

The mere fact that you have to suggest changes in lifestlye to accomodate the increase in population shows that population growth is playing a major role.