The "War" model

[Diogenes Of Pumpkintown]

Originally posted by Moridin: The Aid Agencies are not pulling out b/c our military is coming! They are pulling out b/c it is a very undesirable time for any westerner to be in Afghanistan. Even if our military was not being deployed to Afghanistan, these aid workers would still withdraw, it is the sensible thing to do!

And if our military were not coming, why would it be the sensible thing for them to do? Huh?

[Diogenes Of Pumpkintown]

Originally posted by Lemernis: What the Bush administration should be clear with the American public about is that locating terrorists and bringing them to justice (or eliminating them as required) will be primarily an intelligence/special forces/covert operation. I'll bet this will be nothing at all like the Gulf War. I doubt this will be fought like a traditional war.

I agree that this is the approach we SHOULD take here -- under authority of both American and International Law. I fear it is not. Bush has called out the military, and seems prepared to order conventional military strikes. Already the Afghani population is fleeing from their homes in fear of said traditional miliatary strikes.

This situation is NOT a military problem. That is an out of date way of viewing it. What this calls for is an International police force and court to prosecute such things as Crimes. The Military is too blunt an instrument, and will smash innocents as well, and perhaps turn others against us in consequence.

We have the necessary tools now to treat this as it should be, on the International scene.

[Moridin]

Originally posted by Diogenes Of Pumpkintown: And if our military were not coming, why would it be the sensible thing for them to do? Huh?

Perhaps the hatred of westerners? Perhaps they see that bin Laden has crossed the line for the last time. Why don't you lay the blame for the poor conditions these people live in where it belongs...on the Taliban Government and bin Laden and his terrorist network, not on our military!


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Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig
I've got to admit it's getting better, it's getting better all the time
Bossman of Better Funny Stuff.....of the Laughing Hyenas!

[Diogenes Of Pumpkintown]

Originally posted by Moridin: Perhaps the hatred of westerners? Perhaps they see that bin Laden has crossed the line for the last time. Why don't you lay the blame for the poor conditions these people live in where it belongs...on the Taliban Government and bin Laden and his terrorist network, not on our military!

Oh, for crying out loud Moridin!

Isn't it possible for more than one party to contribute to misery and suffering!!!!????

Why does it have to be either all Bin Laden, or all the US, always friggin Black and White!!!???!!

Yes, the people were already suffering there!!! And yes, we are making them suffer even more with our stupid John Wayne emotional reaction!@!!!!!!!!!

Our real enemy here is the willingness to slaughter innocents in the name of a righteous cause!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Damn Bin Laden for doing so and damn the United States for being willing to do so too!!!!!!!!!

[Sir Taliesin]

GREAT JOB Yorick! Dio, have you gone back and read Bush's speech from thursday yet? Fljotsdale, have you? You both need too. Actually if you can get a hold of it, you need to watch it.

Innocent people have already died, approximately 7,000 at last count. People from over 60 different countries. To me Bin Laden didn't do this to the US. He did it to the world. And from what I've been able to tell, that's how most of the world views it. At least their governemnts do. And most governments have offered some sort of support, weither it be intelligence, air space, bases, troops, ships or planes. Governemnts that I figured in a million years wouldn't help us, like China for instance. They all see this attack as wrong!

If they didn't think we had a legitimate right to do what we are doing, then I don't think they'd help us at all.

BTW, I have my doubts about the report that the SAS has already skirmished with the Taliban. An elite unit like the SAS isn't going to go in like that and just start fighting. They are going to go in a with a highly focused, precise mission and carry it out. You'll never hear about it. way to early for that sort of thing yet. My guess is some newsperson somewhere is trying to stir things up a bit.

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Sir Taliesin



If they take my gun can I still use my Axe?

[This message has been edited by Sir Taliesin (edited 09-24-2001).]

[Diogenes Of Pumpkintown]

Originally posted by Sir Taliesin: Dio, have you gone back and read Bush's speech from thursday yet? Fljotsdale, have you?

I have read it.

[Liliara]

It is impossible to have a debate with people who :

A) base they're opinion on the five minutes of news they happen to catch at night

B) don't bother to look up the facts on this whole situation going back to 1979

C) have NO CLUE how the military really works. (There are books on this also, if you really care to learn rather than speculate)

D) would let their family be murdered in front of them without raising a hand to stop it if it meant violence

And here I pose 3 questions:

1)Do you watch the in depth news shows that come on, do you watch the senate debates and the president's addresses? (Daily)

2)Have you studied deeply the cause of everything leading up to this? Actually sat down with the intention of learning everything you can before coming to conclusions?

3)If someone came into YOUR house, killed YOUR wife, and then held a gun to YOUR childrens head saying they were next, would you really search for a non violent route to resolve the situation, if it were possible that you could kill the bastard before he could do more harm?

Innocent Afghans are now relocating to Pakistan. No one wants to see innocents die if it can be avoided (including the military) These things can and do happen, though.

On the point of defending your family, this is exactly what is happening now. Our family has been assaulted, murdered. Do we wait for it to happen again because some can't stomach war? That is why a draft is the last resort. It is known that some can't hack giving their lives (or taking them)to protect their families. So we have the brave men and women who do it for them. Not because they are bloodthirsty, but because they see it as a great honor to DEFEND the country they love and those who are unable to do it for themselves.

About dropping medicine instead of bombs: In a relief efort in Somalia, 18 U.S. troops sent in a non war effort, were gunned down by radicals (bin Ladin takes great pride in the fact that his men were among them)

On a different note, I never said ANYONE ON THIS THREAD said the Taliban were innocent. It was just in case anyone READING IT thought they were.

Anyway, not flaming anyone, love everyone here! Just putting my opinion in

Disclaimer: The posting party does not intend this towards anyone posting on this thread. If any party feels this is directed towards them, the poster hereby states that neither he/she nor anyone involved in the production of this post had anyone particular in mind. Furthermore, any similarities between emotions felt by posters, and those in the aforementioned post are purely coincidental.

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Captain of Bouncers, Boogre Bar

LH Member

And you never did think that it ever would happen again, in America did you? And you never did think that we'd ever get together again, but we damn sure fooled ya. We're walkin' real proud and we're talkin' real loud again, in America. And you never did think that it ever would happen again.... (Charlie Daniels)

[Lemernis]

I think a military response is entirely appropriate with this kind of enemy, especially when they are attacking military targets for crying out loud! As I said, they have attacked our government itself. Bin Laden is probably richer than some small nations. He has the full support of certain nations, Afghanistan for one, and perhaps Iraq as well. Nations such as this have been using the PLOY of supporting various terrorist organizations in order to distance themselves from responsibility and insulate themselves from military retalliation. They would appear to be complicit in these atrocities which include attacks on the U.S. government and now its people. If so, now they will have to pay the price.

I seriously doubt that Bin Laden or the Taliban has any genuine interest in negotiating in good faith. Is the U.S. supposed to respond by launching terrosist attacks of our own? Come on. Hell yes, this requires a military response!

[Diogenes Of Pumpkintown]

Originally posted by Liliara: Disclaimer: The posting party does not intend this towards anyone posting on this thread. If any party feels this is directed towards them, the poster hereby states that neither he/she nor anyone involved in the production of this post had anyone particular in mind. Furthermore, any similarities between emotions felt by posters, and those in the aforementioned post are purely coincidental.

Then why the hell are you posting it in this thread?

Very well, I will just ignore the entire pointless post then.

[This message has been edited by Diogenes Of Pumpkintown (edited 09-24-2001).]

[Liliara]

Originally posted by Diogenes Of Pumpkintown: Then why the hell are you posting it in this thread? Very well, I will just ignore the entire pointless post then. [This message has been edited by Diogenes Of Pumpkintown (edited 09-24-2001).]

Now, now, Dio... Be nice!


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Captain of Bouncers, Boogre Bar

LH Member

And you never did think that it ever would happen again, in America did you? And you never did think that we'd ever get together again, but we damn sure fooled ya. We're walkin' real proud and we're talkin' real loud again, in America. And you never did think that it ever would happen again.... (Charlie Daniels)