Double standards on Israel - Palestine

[Yorick]

Hallmarks of nations that respect world opinion and diplomacy rather than violence I suppose. If all else fails, strap bombs to your children and blow up civilians.....

The Arabs not only rejected partition, but attacked Israel from all sides. On the day that Israel declared its independence, the Arab League Secretary, General Azzam Pasha declared "jihad", a holy war. He said, "This will be a war of extermination and a momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Mongolian massacres and the Crusades".1 The Mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Amin Al Husseini stated, "I declare a holy war, my Moslem brothers! Murder the Jews! Murder them all!" 2 The armies of lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Egypt and Iraq invaded the tiny new country with the declared intent of destroying it.3 War in Palestine 1947-9. After the UN resolution of Nov. 29, 1947, to partition the country into Jewish and Arab states with Jerusalem as a corpus separatum. Palestinian Arabs (including veterans of the 1936-9 disturbances, members of Arab youth organizations, and police) initiated hostilities against the Jewish population. They were soon joined by volunteers from neighboring Arab states. Jewish forces were organized mostly in the Haganah (underground militia) with a fulltime component of about 4,000, mostly members of the Palmah. The early attacks resembled the intifada of 1936-9, the Haganah restricting itself to defense of settlements and communications and limited retaliation. Early in 1948, the first attack on a Jewish village (Tirat Tzevi) occurred which proved unsuccessful. In the cities, the Arabs employed terrorist methods. During March, they concentrated on roads and on towns with a mixed population. The Jerusalem-Tel Aviv road was fiercely attacked and eventually, Jewish Jerusalem was cut off, except for communication by a few light aeroplanes. Meanwhile, the Jews had received a first consignment of arms from Czechoslovakia and the road to Jerusalem was eventually reopened. A volunteer "Arab Liberation Army" led by the Syrian Fawzi el Kawukji failed in its attack on Mishmar ha-Emek in the Jezreel Valley, while a battalion of volunteers from Jebel Druze was routed when attempting to attack Ramat Yohanan near Haifa. In April, the Haganah counter-attacked, overrunning Tiberias, opening the road to Galilee, and capturing Haifa and the Katamon suburb in Jerusalem. Early in May, Safed and the southern Huleh district came into Jewish hands, together with Acre and most of western Galilee. Internal Arab resistance was thus ended. But on May 15, with the termination of the Mandate, the states of the Arab League (armies from Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Egypt, and a token force from Saudi Arabia) invaded the country. The Arab Legion overran the Etzion bloc of settlements south of Jerusalem, two Jewish settlements north of the city, as well as the Sheikh Jarrah district of the city and the Jewish quarter of the Old City; the new city of Jerusalem was now under siege. However, Arab attempts to reach the center of the New City failed, largely because of the successful resistance of the outlying settlement of Ramat Rahel and the Notre Dame compound. The siege was eventually circumvented by the secret construction of a road ("Burma Road") for the transport of food and ammunition from the Jewish-held Plain of Aijalon. The Egyptians, attacking through the Negev, at first advanced rapidly, occupying Gaza and Beersheba, but were held back by a chain of Jewish settlements (Kephar Darom, Nirim, Beerot Yitzhak, and Negbah) and at Ashdod, south of Tel Aviv. Plans for an Egyptian landing in the vicinity of Tel Aviv were foiled by the hastily-improvised Israel navy cooperating with the fledgling air force, and the Egyptians thereupon limited their objective to an unsuccessful endeavor to isolate the, Negev. The main Syrian attacks south of the Sea of Galilee were checked at Deganyah after an initial advance and driven back. Further N, however, the Syrians captured Mishmar ha-Yarden. Iraqi attacks in the nothern sector were met by stiff Israel opposition and were not pressed. The Lebanese entered Galilee but made little headway. On June 11, a general truce came into effect which ended on July 8. During this time, a fundamental change had occurred in the balance of forces. The newly-established Israel Defense Army now cleared Lower Galilee and captured Nazareth, took Lydda and Ramleh in the central sector, widened the Jerusalem corridor (but failed to capture Latrun despite repeated attempts), and continued to hold the Egyptians in the south. The UN Security Council enforced a second cease-fire on July 19. This lasted until October when, in a week of heavy fighting, Beersheba was taken, the Egyptians driven back, and an Egyptian brigade surrounded at Faluja. In the north Kawukji unsuccessfully attacked the settlement of Manara; Israel forces, in 21 1/2 days, cleared Upper Galilee and captured villages inside the Lebanon. Fighting in the Negev was resumed in Dec. when the Egyptian front collapsed and Israel forces occupied almost the entire Negev, with the exception of the Gaza strip; they also entered the Sinai peninsula, but a British ultimatum led to the withdrawal of Israel forces from Egyptian territory. The Egyptians then agreed to discuss armistice terms and an agreement was signed at Rhodes in Feb., 1949 . Subsequently, the Israel army occupied Elath at the S tip of, the Negev after its evacuation by the Arab Legion. In the ensuing months, separate armistice agreements were signed with Jordan, the Lebanon, and Syria; no agreement was, however, signed with Iraq or Saudi Arabia.4 1. Howard M Sachar, A History of Israel (New York: Knopf, 1979), p. 333. 2. Leonard J. Davis and M. Decter (eds.). Myths and facts 1982; a Concise Record of the Arab-Israeli Conflict (Washington DC: near east report, 1982), p. 199 3. In a formal cablegram to the UN Secretary General on May 15, 1948, the Secretary general of the Arab League declared that the Arab states rejected partition and intended to set up a "United State of Palestine." For a full text of the cablegram, see John N. Moore (ed.), The Arab-Israeli Conflict; Readings and Documents (Princeton, NJ: Princeton University Press, abridged and revised edition, 1977), pp. 938-943. 4. The Standard Jewish Encyclopedia, 1959 Source for 1,2 & 3: The Jewish Agency for Israel This page was produced by Joseph E. Katz Middle Eastern Political and Religious History Analyst Brooklyn, New York E-mail to a friend Source of picture above, "The Standard Jewish Encyclopedia", Doubleday & Company, Inc. 1959

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I am the walrus!.... er, no hang on....

A fair dinkum laughing Hyena!

[Shadowstrider]

Originally posted by Silver Cheetah: People who don't believe in a monotheistic deity don't tend to capitalise the word 'god'. It's a standard, basic noun like any other. It is not a proper name. Jesus or Jehovah are proper names, and would normally be capitalised. In Britain, nouns are not capitalised as a matter of course. PS. Leave Luther alone! I loved what he said..... More Luther, more more more... (Excited tail lashing...)

I am well aware of this, however if you are using the monotheistic God then you must capitolize it. I am an atheist, I normally do not capitolize god, because I do not believe in him, then again I never say "thank God" or use the name.

However since he said "Thank God" it was refering to the monotheistic lord, thus requires capitolization. If you read a bible, god is always God, just as nearly all anglo-saxon literature(Beauwolf is a good one for seeing this)

I dunno who luther is, but I assume it was the person I quoted prior. Well, I'll leave "Luther" alone if he doesn't make childish postings like that one.


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Del:/usr/bin/laden

[Yorick]

Oh Silver Cheetah, regarding this quote:
"The initial claim to Palestine, - that the Jews have a ‘right’ to the country based upon an occupation 2000 years ago, is laughable. (Zionists base their claims on Palestine on the kingdoms of David and Solomon. From David’s conquest of Canaan in 1000 B.C to the wiping out of Judah in 586 B.C., that is a 414 year Jewish rule. Any analogy with the native American people doesn’t actually hold, as if rights are established by length of time the land was occupied before the arrival of the coloniser, the native Americans would appear to have far more right to North America than the Jews do to Palestine."

The 414 years are when Jews had an independant Jewish Kingdom, not how long they lived in the area.

Now what are you saying about North Americans? That they have no right to Ancestral homes in North America? North America is much much larger than Israel. Much larger than the middle east. If the Arabian League was a conjoined political entity - one country - creating a small Autonomous area for Jews would not be out of the ordinary. Heck I think Australia's Arnhemland is bigger than Israel. No white Australian can enter the place without a permit and mountains of red tape.

Maybe the Jews should have built casinos on their land, or given an Arab the honorific title Prince of Tel Awales, or Duke of Edenkabutz.



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I am the walrus!.... er, no hang on....

A fair dinkum laughing Hyena!

[Moridin]

Originally posted by Silver Cheetah: PS. Leave Luther alone! I loved what he said..... More Luther, more more more... (Excited tail lashing...)

Again you disappoint me

Encouraging someone to post nothing more than slanderous comments about those that actually try to put thought into their posts!

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Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig
I've got to admit it's getting better, it's getting better all the time
Bossman of Better Funny Stuff.....of the Laughing Hyenas!

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Silver Cheetah: It's a standard, basic noun like any other. It is not a proper name. Jesus or Jehovah are proper names, and would normally be capitalised.

The noun "god" is what you're referring to I believe Silver, as "God" is contextually used as a proper noun and thus accorded a capital G.

I could call myself And, or Both and they would thus be proper nouns. Heck I have a friend called Guy. I have another friend called Sheila. They are both Australian actors. He is a guy and she is a sheilah. I suppose will power removes the right of people named Will to have a proper noun for a name. Can people named Christian be christian? My cousin's name is Hero. She will never be a hero as she is a girl.

Need I continue? Thank God. He is the only god I pray to.



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I am the walrus!.... er, no hang on....

A fair dinkum laughing Hyena!

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Luther: Thank god someone else on this forum is not a complete American-media-brainwashed idiot.

Cool. An insult. Does this mean I can start? I recall a certain Rugby match where we beat you guys in your stronghold a few months ago. I could also make mention of the sheep/human ratio, aside from the fact that you are from the south island, and so just as likely to have been brainwashed by the American media as I, from "New Auckland" or Sydney as you may know it.

How dare you insult in such fashion.



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I am the walrus!.... er, no hang on....

A fair dinkum laughing Hyena!

[Forscythe]

As a Muslim Myself i'd just like to say.....Jihad means struggle....

If i had to learn to read that is a jihad....

But an interesting fact is that all peoples....Jews,Christians,Hindus,Neanderthal Man...at whatever time in history
will defend themselves when another group treatens with violence.....

And also There is a difference between Arabs and Muslim...

Arabs are a race of people....
Muslims are people who follow Islam the religion and is not restricted by race.

I thank you all and Peace be with us all!!

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Forscythe: As a Muslim Myself i'd just like to say.....Jihad means struggle.... If i had to learn to read that is a jihad.... But an interesting fact is that all peoples....Jews,Christians,Hindus,Neanderthal Man...at whatever time in history will defend themselves when another group treatens with violence..... And also There is a difference between Arabs and Muslim... Arabs are a race of people.... Muslims are people who follow Islam the religion and is not restricted by race. I thank you all and Peace be with us all!!

Of course. I know Indonesian Muslims, and Christian Arabs. I have a dear friend in New York here who is a Christian Arab. I have three Messianic Jew friends too. (Christian Jews)



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I am the walrus!.... er, no hang on....

A fair dinkum laughing Hyena!

Originally posted by Forscythe: As a Muslim Myself i'd just like to say.....Jihad means struggle.... If i had to learn to read that is a jihad.... But an interesting fact is that all peoples....Jews,Christians,Hindus,Neanderthal Man...at whatever time in history will defend themselves when another group treatens with violence..... And also There is a difference between Arabs and Muslim... Arabs are a race of people.... Muslims are people who follow Islam the religion and is not restricted by race. I thank you all and Peace be with us all!!

Thank you Forscythe, welcome! You share some excellent ideas.

One thing though...Buddists under the leadership of the Dali Lama do not defend themselves with violence, even if they are attacked. They still do not advocate violence to this day, although the chinese still occupy their country and supress their religion there.
Some christians, like those who followed Martin Luther King Jr. during the civil rights movement in the USA Also do not return violence to those who inflict it upon them. True peacefulness is rare in the world, but it does exist.

One could say that they defend themselves, just not with violence.


[This message has been edited by G'kar (edited 09-25-2001).]

[Yorick]

Originally posted by G'kar: Thank you Forscythe, welcome! You share some excellent ideas. One thing though...Buddists under the leadership of the Dali Lama do not defend themselves with violence, even if they are attacked. They still do not advocate violence to this day, although the chinese still occupy their country and supress their religion there. Some christians, like those who followed Martin Luther King Jr. during the civil rights movement in the USA Also do not return violence to those who inflict it upon them. True peacefulness is rare in the world, but it does exist. One could say that they defend themselves, just not with violence. [This message has been edited by G'kar (edited 09-25-2001).]

G'kar, peace requires two parties to live without conflict. There is/was violence in Tibet. One side chose not to respond, but there is still a victim and a perpetrator. That is not peace.