Double standards on Israel - Palestine

[Fljotsdale]

Originally posted by Rikard: The Jihad is also seen as a God-intendet thing does that mean that IF (not when) the islamtic world would take over Europe as they need space we should allow it to prevent waR? We saw what happend to Hitler and Austria and Sudeten land

I was just pointing something out, Rikard - I didn't say EITHER side was RIGHT!
But the Palestinians have more right on their side than the Israelis do, imho. And when your enemy has ovewhelming force to back up his claim, what are you left with when negotiation fails? Having religious/political maniacs on both sides doesn't help, either.

I am DEAD AGAINST war - but I recognise that you can't keep lying down under tyranny and oppression for ever if all attempts at negotiation fail.

If black Americans and black Africans had done that, they would still be either slaves or subject to the laws of Apartheid. If Europe had done that when Hitler tried to take over, Europe would be enslaved too.
I am against war, because too many innocent lives are wasted - but I am NOT a pacifist.

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[Silver Cheetah]

Originally posted by Rikard: The Jihad is also seen as a God-intendet thing does that mean that IF (not when) the islamtic world would take over Europe as they need space we should allow it to prevent waR? We saw what happend to Hitler and Austria and Sudeten land

Rikard, that Jihad thing is just rubbish. It's only your complete and total fundamentalists that believe in taking holy war to non Islamic states.

Not sure I understand what your point is here..... ??

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[Silver Cheetah]

Originally posted by Shadowstrider: Thank God. If you're going to use a monotheistic deity reference, at the very least, do it properly.

People who don't believe in a monotheistic deity don't tend to capitalise the word 'god'.

It's a standard, basic noun like any other. It is not a proper name. Jesus or Jehovah are proper names, and would normally be capitalised.

In Britain, nouns are not capitalised as a matter of course.

PS. Leave Luther alone! I loved what he said..... More Luther, more more more... (Excited tail lashing...)

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[This message has been edited by Silver Cheetah (edited 09-24-2001).]

Hmmmm. Thansk for the info, O Sterling Feline. Not a day goes by that I don't learn something on this forum...
Oh, and Fljotsdale, I think you're dead on with the fundamentalist kook bit, also. Whether they invoke Yahweh, Allah, God, or Bullwinkle, a fundie is a fundie is a fundie, and are thereby some of the most dangerous and screwheaded examples of Homo Bellophilia to be found.


(ed. note: Did I get my Latin correct?, been a while and I can't recall..)

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Originally posted by Silver Cheetah: the native Americans would appear to have far more right to North America than the Jews do to Palestine.

I am not sure about that Silver C. But I can tell you that many casinos with extra money does buy influence. Land rights have been huge...fishing rights..hunting rights...casino rights. Heres an example of just a humble legal joist.
You have state stocked rivers, lakes and forests in the US. The DNR controls most government wide stocking and trys to preserve Americas fish and game. They are doing good but there is always room for improvement in these areas Well, stay with me here..Im getting to it On reservations many of these streams, lakes, and forests connect to state territorys. The DNR requires people , living in the US, to buy a state fishing and hunting licence and dictates techniques for doing so. Assureing breeding and game accuretly, food wise. So all in state areas you must have one to be legal. But in Reservations ,the areas of woods and flow, Natives are taking fish and game illegally according to US law. Canadians might have some input here also. Standing on the "right spot" will yeild a high quantity of game when a systematic drive is taken. Bears knew this age ago
Alot of land right tensions are here also.(have you been to Isreal?)

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*\Conan/*

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Silver Cheetah: I am tired of the assumption that the Palestinians are simply terrorists, whilst Israeli actions are justified. This is the most arrant nonsense. Palestine is Arab, not Jewish. (See figures below.) My fundamental point is that Israel had no right moving into Palestine in the first place. It was already occupied by a native people, who although they had no objection to Jews living there, side by side with them, did not want to see a Jewish state established slap bang in the middle of their country.

I haven't read any replies yet, nor the whole post, but as this argument was first and ignores history, I took it up.

The Arabs moved into the area circa 650AD with invasive and violent dispossessing action. War. The Jews had Palestine as their homeland for many hundreds of years prior to this, and after the invasion became a repressed minority.

Aditionally the Arabs have many many nations where they can exist in an Islamic state with Arabic as there national language and be ruled by their own people.
Hebrew is the only official language of one state. Judaism is the only official of one state. From nation to nation they have been oppressed, victimised and been ruled by non-Jews.

Give them a break. What do you want them to do? Die? That was Hitlers "final solution" to the "Jewish problem" wasn't it?

Is that what you propose Silver?

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I am the walrus!.... er, no hang on....

A fair dinkum laughing Hyena!

[This message has been edited by Yorick (edited 09-24-2001).]

[Diogenes Of Pumpkintown]

Originally posted by Yorick: I haven't read any replies yet, nor the whole post, but as this argument was first and ignores history, I took it up. The Arabs moved into the area circa 650AD with invasive and violent dispossessing action. War. The Jews had Palestine as their homeland for many hundreds of years prior to this, and after the invasion became a repressed minority. Aditionally the Arabs have many many nations where they can exist in an Islamic state with Arabic as there national language and be ruled by their own people. Hebrew is the only official language of one state. Judaism is the only official of one state. From nation to nation they have been oppressed, victimised and been ruled by non-Jews. Give them a break. What do you want them to do? Die? That was Hitlers "final solution" to the "Jewish problem" wasn't it? Is that what you propose Silver?

Maybe they can live in Australia, Yorick. Perhaps the UN should use force to open up a new country there. Hell, Australia is a big place. Plenty of room for the displaced Aussies to move to.

As for the claim that it used to be their homeland a long time ago, why on earth do we claim that this means the Jews are entitled now to their ancient homeland when we do not claim the same thing for any other displaced people on the face of this earth? Geez, those crazy Palestinians, getting all bent out of shape at being singled out for this special treatment. Imagine that.

[This message has been edited by Diogenes Of Pumpkintown (edited 09-24-2001).]

Originally posted by Rikard: The Jihad is also seen as a God-intendet thing does that mean that IF (not when) the islamtic world would take over Europe as they need space we should allow it to prevent waR? We saw what happend to Hitler and Austria and Sudeten land

A muslim I spoke too told me the word Jihad and its meaning in the koran have been perverted by extremists to justify warring against non-muslims. That word is in the koran maybe five times ,in the whole book!!!!! And he told me that it means a deep and personal search for god within...like a personal war against ones own unwanted character traits. A jihad involves lots of prayer and personal time with allah.
Now I haven't read the koran, I only asked one muslim, but I heard a muslim from boston college corelate this knowledge on a tv news show.It was cool, a catholic priest and a muslim cleric asking for tolerance and mutual understanding, together. Gotta love it!

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Diogenes Of Pumpkintown: Maybe they can live in Australia, Yorick. Perhaps the UN should use force to open up a new country there. Hell, Australia is a big place. Plenty of room for the displaced Aussies to move to. As for the claim that it used to be their homeland a long time ago, why on earth do we claim that this means the Jews are entitled now to their ancient homeland when we do not claim the same thing for any other displaced people on the face of this earth? Geez, those crazy Palestinians, getting all bent out of shape at being singled out for this special treatment. Imagine that. [This message has been edited by Diogenes Of Pumpkintown (edited 09-24-2001).]

The Arabian homeland is right next door to Israel, and much larger and of greater religious significance.

The fact remains that we are talking a very very small area Diogenes, and about the only homeland on the face of the planet for a persecuted race.
Madagaskar was looked at as were other places. Your comment about Australia is not as stupid as you percieve, except that it is not their homeland.

However the Aborigines of Australia have special status. Autonomous zones, ownership of key areas such as Uluru, funding, preferred employee status, housing assistance and education fee waivers. Did the Arab conquerers afford to the "Aboriginies of Israel" such special status? No.



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I am the walrus!.... er, no hang on....

A fair dinkum laughing Hyena!

[John D Harris]

Originally posted by Diogenes Of Pumpkintown: Maybe they can live in Australia, Yorick. Perhaps the UN should use force to open up a new country there. Hell, Australia is a big place. Plenty of room for the displaced Aussies to move to. As for the claim that it used to be their homeland a long time ago, why on earth do we claim that this means the Jews are entitled now to their ancient homeland when we do not claim the same thing for any other displaced people on the face of this earth? Geez, those crazy Palestinians, getting all bent out of shape at being singled out for this special treatment. Imagine that. [This message has been edited by Diogenes Of Pumpkintown (edited 09-24-2001).]

On this we agree Dio, but for intirely different reasons. Not because of an acient homeland claim, but rather because the Arabs could not take it fron the Israelis in '48,'56,'67,'or'73.



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