IWD Reference Data

[ZFR]

Since dual-classing isnt really properly explained in the manual... and since its really important I decided to include this complete guide on dual-classing... edit and add this to your guide NobleNick... I included the info on specialists again

The following is the list of all possible dual-classing. If a combination is not mentioned here it means it's not allowed. The prequisites are given in paranthesis:

Fighter --> Thief (STR 15, DEX 17)
Fighter --> Mage (STR 15, INT 17)
Fighter --> Cleric (STR 15, WIS 17)
Fighter --> Druid (STR 15, WIS 17, CHA 17, True Neutral alignement)
Thief --> Fighter (DEX 15, STR 17)
Thief --> Mage (DEX 15, INT 17)
Thief --> Cleric (DEX 15, WIS 17)
Mage --> Fighter (INT 15, STR 17)
Mage --> Thief (INT 15, DEX 17)
Mage --> Cleric (INT 15, WIS 17)
Cleric --> Fighter (WIS 15, STR 17)
Cleric --> Thief (WIS 15, DEX 17)
Cleric --> Mage (WIS 15, INT 17)
Cleric --> Ranger (WIS 15, STR 17, DEX 17, Lawful Good, Neutral Good or Chaotic Good alignement)
Druid --> Fighter (WIS 15, CHA 15, STR 17)
Ranger --> Cleric (STR 15, DEX 15, WIS 17)

To dual-class to specialist mages you need additionally:

Abjurer: WIS 15
Conjurer: CON 15
Diviner: WIS 16
Enchanter: CHA 16
Illusionist: DEX 16
Invoker: CON 16
Necromancer: WIS 16
Transmuter: DEX 15


NOTES:
_To DC you must be human!
_You must have reached at least level 2.
_Once you DC you can only gain XP in your second class. You will never again gain XP or advance in your first class.
_Once you DC you will not be able to use abilities of first class until your second class is one level higher than first class.
_Without HoW the XP of both classes is added towards the XP cap. Keep that in mind so you're not stuck with a DCed character whose second class is lower than first class but can advance no longer because of the cap. With HoW You can reach level 30 with both classes.
_When checking prequisites potions/spells/items cannot help you. You need your base ability scores to meet the requirements.
_HP: you stop gaining after DCing while leveling up until your second class is of higher level than the first.
_Armor: DCed mages and thiefs can wear armor (that is allowed by their second class) but mages cannot cast spell in armor (few exceptions exist) and thiefs cannot use abilities in anything higher than studded leather. DCed druids can wear armor and use all abilities normally.
_Weapons: DCed mages and thiefs can use weapons (that are allowed by their second class). DCed clerics and druids cannot use weapons that their class won't allow. Any proficiency points spent in those weapons are lost.
_Fighters cannot gain more than 2 proficiency points in weapons if Fighter is not the active class.

(Note: I purposely used "Thiefs" as plural of "Thief" and not "Thieves")

[ 11-11-2004, 07:15 PM: Message edited by: ZFR ]

[Otto]

One minor spoiler contained in response:

Originally posted by NobleNick: Otto, Yes, I have listed NO racial THAC0 bonuses. I believe the Ranger is the only character to get them, and he only for one race. Actually, I have NO in-game data at all for the Ranger (yet). I know this will sound snobbish, though I don't intend it that way; but IWD with HoW is so superior to vanilla IWD in so many ways, that I have no interest at all in the latter, except as it may help me to help others who have yet to acquire the expansion. That is a neat fact though: the CON bonus being good for IWD-only. So now I've found -ONE- reason for not installing HoW. Exceptional (18/xx) STR. Good question. I haven't added it because: A.) I don't remember the effects; and B.) I assumed that the effects were not that big a deal. Maybe I am wrong about the latter, and I wouldn't mind getting a lesson on the former.

For racial bonuses, I meant that halflings get +1 to hit with slings and throwing axes, and elves get +1 to hit with bows and swords. For example, an elf fighter or ranger with a composite bow, and DEX=19, has a starting THAC0=14. A human F/R/P with DEX=18 and a composite bow has a starting THAC0=16.

With melee weapons, exceptional strength can influence THAC0 by +1 (18/01-50); +2(18/51-99); or +3(18/00). Since your tables are assuming powerful characters, you might calculate fighter THAC0 with the +2 bonus (STR=18/51-99).

Although I agree whole-heartedly that the expansion packs greatly improve many aspects of the game, there are a few features in "vanilla" IWD that work to the players advantage:

1) Already mentioned: more HP. Characters retain HP bonus throughout the game. A 14th level IWD fighter with CON=18 can have up to 161 HP. In HOW, the same fighter would have only 141 HP.

2) Chests/doors are much easier to bash open in IWD than HOW. In vanilla IWD, STR=18/01 can open most any door or chest. In HOW, you need STR=18/91 (or higher) for most doors/chests.

3) Several powerful random treasures are removed with HOW installed. For example, in vanilla IWD, there's a Potion of +1 CON (permanent) that can be found in Dragon's Eye. HOW removes this and other powerful items from the game. In vanilla IWD, it was possible for characters to have CON=21 and regenerate from wounds about as quickly as a troll.

4) Better spell-tables for mid/upper-level Paladins & Rangers. For example, a 13th level ranger spellbook in vanilla IWD is 3/2/1. In HOW, the same level ranger only gets 1/1/1. That's a difference of being able to self-heal 27 HP without resting (2 cure light wounds + 1 cure moderate wounds).

5) No pesky "call to arms". In vanilla IWD, it's much easier to manipulate the fog-of-war to the players advantage.

Again, I think HOW improves the game, largely because I prefer the game to be a little more challenging. I just wanted to note that there are a handful of player advantages with vanilla IWD.

[ 11-12-2004, 03:25 PM: Message edited by: Otto ]

[Roboghost]

STR & THAC0

17 +1
18/51 +2
18/00 +3
21 +4
etc.

[NobleNick]

Originally posted by Roboghost: STR & THAC0 17 +1 18/51 +2 18/00 +3 21 +4 etc.

Roboghost,

Ummm, I've taken a boatload of college math, but I still don't get it: Get lost long before the "etc." part. Something that would would make sense is:

17 +1
18 +2
18/51 +3
18/00 +4
20 +5
21 +6

The above presumes that 18/01 is just ever so slightly better than 18, and that 18/00 is the same as 19. This is just my attempt at pattern recognition, and has no basis in a knowledge of D&D2 rules.

Care to give me a lesson in the rules of exceptional STR?

EDIT: And I just realized you said "STR and THAC0"! So the above table was THAC0 bonus from STR? Isn't it Damage that is affected?

--------------------
What's a party,
without a song?
Bards ROCK!
Party On!!


[ 11-30-2004, 04:36 PM: Message edited by: NobleNick ]

[Aerich]

You do get a Thac0 bonus for Str, as well as damage.

IIRC, the bonus is as follows (att/dmg):
17 +1/+1
18 +1/+2
18/01-/50 +1/+3
18/51-/75 +2/+3
18/76-/90 +2/+4
18/91-/99 +2/+5
18/00 +3/+6
19 +3/+7 or maybe +4/+7 - I'll check later.

and I don't know the bonus for higher Str off the top of my head. But it follows a similar pattern. of increasing damage by +1 every step up, while attack bonus doesn't go up as quickly. Maybe every 3-4 steps.

[Marty4]

This is it, straight from the BG2 manual. I'm assuming they are the same.
STR increases THAC0 due to the ability to swing the weapon faster, I think.
16 +0/+1
17 +1/+1
18 +1/+2
18/01-50 +1/+3
18/51-75 +2/+3
18/76-90 +2/+4
18/91-99 +2/+5
18/00 +3/+6
19 +3/+7
20 +3/+8
21 +4/+9
22 +4/+10
23 +5/+11
24 +6/+12
25 +7/+14

[ 11-30-2004, 08:27 PM: Message edited by: Marty4 ]

[Otto]

Marty is absolutely correct. These stats are from 2nd Ed. AD&D rules.

However, I think the THAC0 bonus is as likely from being able to hit harder, and thus penetrate armor better, as it is from swinging faster to hit a moving target.

The 2nd ed. AD&D armor class system doesn't really differentiate between dodging a strike and having a strike deflected by armor or a shield. The 3rd edition rules in IWD2 do a slightly better job at this.