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Old 04-30-2002, 03:35 PM   #21
Spelca
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Join Date: January 3, 2002
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sir Kenyth:
Let me rephrase that comment. "Properly locked" is much better. A loaded gun should be in the immediate possession of a responsible adult! A properly stored gun around children would be unloaded and in a steel gun safe with a secure combination lock. Putting the cable lock on the gun wouldn't be a bad idea either. A loaded gun on a high shelf in a breadbox is NOT properly secured!
I still think it's not safe to have a gun in the house when children are there. Children are very inventive, and when they're curious they'll do anything to get what they want. [img]smile.gif[/img]
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Old 04-30-2002, 03:36 PM   #22
Neb
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sir Kenyth:
quote:
Originally posted by Neb:
So anything said by your ancestors so many years ago cannot possibly be wrong? Right, I see an intelligent and truly enlightened attitude there. Respect for traditions and the fundamental laws are one thing. But refusing to accept a bit of change and move with the times is another.
Certain things DON'T change Neb. People will always have to get water and nutrition, they'll always have to breath oxygen, and you'll always need the freedom in life to be happy. There have always been power mongers and criminals and there always will be! You will always need the freedom and right to protect yourself and your loved ones and the balance of power should always be with the people. Who's to stop someone from taking advantage or hurting us Neb, if not you and me?[/QUOTE]Some things MUST change Kenyth! People will always change and the laws will always need to be changed with them! The power mongers and criminals will always find it easier to exploit a system that remains one way, rather than one that changes to counter them. The american constitution is in some ways OUTDATED.

If you're gonna buy guns to defend yourself anyway, what use is the police? Or the FBI? Or the rest of the law enforcement people? They're not necessary then, you've got the guns yourself. YOU go take care of your precious law. No, the reason for the law enforcement people is that they can be TRUSTED with the guns so that THEY can defend you and your loved ones.

And there's noone to stop anyone from taking advantage of us, most of the time we can't even stop it ourselves. And the few times when we can guns probably won't help us. The pen IS mightier than the sword, the gun and all of the other weapons.

*sigh* People complain about religious fanatics..... That's close to what some of you are, defending fanatically your "right" to bear arms and "defend yourselves".
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Old 04-30-2002, 03:38 PM   #23
Spelca
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sir Kenyth:
locking them up is good but if you have guns in a house with kids you should make sure they know what a gun is capable of.that is one of the best ways to keep kids from playing with them
Don't they see that on tv? On the news and in films? I'm pretty sure that all children know that 'guns' kill, but they still want to play with them.
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Old 04-30-2002, 03:38 PM   #24
Azred
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I, personally, have no need or use for guns; thus, there is no reason for me to own one. Besides, since belle and I have a sprout I wouldn't have one in the house.
On the other hand, we are guaranteed in the Constitution that "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed", so if someone wants to own a gun (or any other "arms", for that matter) then they may. Banning all guns will drive guns underground (hence the origin of that famous NRA saying) yet will not stop violence or diminish crime in any way. Forbidding weapons on Okinawa led directly to the development of karate on that island; if anything, banning guns will cause a rise in the use of other weapons.
When "concealed carry" became a reality in Texas, some people were suggesting that we would soon see gunfights in the streets as if it were 1850 again; this has never happened. In fact, I can recall no instance in which someone misused their concealed-carry permit and subsequently had the permit revoked. Responsible adults do not "shoot first and ask questions later".
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Old 04-30-2002, 03:41 PM   #25
Sir Kenyth
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[/qb][/QUOTE]Umm....correct me if I am wrong but most countries seem to rely on police and the army.[/qb][/QUOTE]Certainly! They'll be there when it's all done and over to take the report and start the investigation of who killed or raped you. Is one assigned to your house? Do you have one dutifully follow you about, just in case?

Another thought. Should a bad turn occur in our government, does the army take orders from you and your neighbors? The occurance is unlikely, I agree. But who should be there to stop it if they render the populus impotent by disarmament and the removing of the constitutional rights? Bad regimes ALWAYS start with actions of this sort. The first thing Hitler did was collect up all the guns!

[ 04-30-2002, 03:57 PM: Message edited by: Sir Kenyth ]
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Old 04-30-2002, 03:46 PM   #26
Spelca
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Can I ask something please... Can you please not quote all of the quotes that were quoted before you... Quote the parts which are essential to what you have to say, or quote one person so that we'll know who you're replying to. It's so simple to delete some quotes when you're posting...
It's really annoying to see all those quotes... And it's a waste of space. [img]tongue.gif[/img]
Thanks.
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Old 04-30-2002, 03:49 PM   #27
dragonwolf
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as a paramedic i see both sides of this arguement because i deal with it everyday.i have ran calls where a child was shot while playing with a gun,and a veriedy of other calls that i dont have time to write about and i have seen ppl who have had no chose but to shot an intruder in there home.

i can say i feel alot safer knowing there are several guns in my house that i have tought my wife to shot and will teach my kids to do when the are old enough to learn responseably,and the very first thing they will learn,and the very first rule in gun safty,is NEVER point a gun at anything you dont intind to KILL.that is the best way to have true gun control

in addition it is literally a Balance of power.if the bad guys know we dont have any guns and they do they will think nothing of coming into your home and terrorizing you,and the police cant get there soon enough in that situation!on the other hand if they know you have at least one gun they will not so quickly come into a house that there is a possability of them geting shot or killed they arent that brave.

and has much as i pains me to do so think about 9-11-01!if some passangers had guns and the terrorist tried to take a plane they would have been out nummbered and out gunned!simple numbers. 5 vs.100 the terrorist would have had to find another way to try to bring terror to this great land of ours and this is also why i compleatly agree with having at least 3 armed marshalls on every plane.

so to say it simply i beleave that we should all be responsable gun owners and support gun laws and NOT gun "control" in everyarea of this great world of ours!
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Old 04-30-2002, 03:55 PM   #28
Neb
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The problem with guns in planes is that one stray bullet can puncture the hull and lead to some problems with air pressure.... Also, if you're unarmed you're more likely to just be knocked out or beat up a bit by a criminal. If you've got a gun he will probably think, "It's him or me!" and shoot you immediately. So what's your choice? Kill or get killed? Or just getting beat up a bit?
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Old 04-30-2002, 03:56 PM   #29
Sir Kenyth
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Quote:
Some things MUST change Kenyth! People will always change and the laws will always need to be changed with them! The power mongers and criminals will always find it easier to exploit a system that remains one way, rather than one that changes to counter them. The american constitution is in some ways OUTDATED.

If you're gonna buy guns to defend yourself anyway, what use is the police? Or the FBI? Or the rest of the law enforcement people? They're not necessary then, you've got the guns yourself. YOU go take care of your precious law. No, the reason for the law enforcement people is that they can be TRUSTED with the guns so that THEY can defend you and your loved ones.

And there's noone to stop anyone from taking advantage of us, most of the time we can't even stop it ourselves. And the few times when we can guns probably won't help us. The pen IS mightier than the sword, the gun and all of the other weapons.

*sigh* People complain about religious fanatics..... That's close to what some of you are, defending fanatically your "right" to bear arms and "defend yourselves".
Are you saying it's not my right to defend myself? If so, you've been brainwashed out of a basic instinct, and I beg to differ! What makes the federal agencies or police any more blessed to be trusted with a firearm than me?

I answered a similar post Neb. The police are great. They can't be everywhere at once. They'll be there when it's all over and done with and take the report. Maybe they'll even catch whoever killed you and raped your loved ones. Did you know if you call the police, they don't come, and you're raped/maimed/killed you have no legal recourse? The only compensation you might get is sympathy! This has happened before. The police are not held responsible for your safety. YOU ARE!

I also seem to remember the right to use the "Pen" being protected by a similar constitutional right. This one has also been nibbled at over the years. But don't worry, if they revoke one amendment, they surely won't go after the others, right?

[ 04-30-2002, 04:03 PM: Message edited by: Sir Kenyth ]
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Old 04-30-2002, 03:58 PM   #30
Epona
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It's something I'm in two minds about.

I'm European, so I'm not used to seeing a lot of guns about on the streets, and consequently I'm wary of them and the idea of owning one is a little scary.

On the other hand, I grew up in a rural area so was quite used to seeing hunting parties wandering about. Many of our police are armed now. I travel a fair bit, to places where police are more heavily and obviously armed than they are here. I've had a kalashnikov pointed at me by a kid in uniform who thought he was being clever (Egypt) and in London from the top of the TA (Territorial Army) building - by some f*ckwit who also thought he was being clever. That obviously made me nervous.

Lots of guns on the streets round where I live too, drug gang shoot-outs happen despite the tight gun control laws - all with illegally (and easily) obtained weapons. So having laws doesn't stop gun ownership.

So yes, I feel nervousness about the presence of guns in some respects. On the other hand, I also enjoyed blasting the hell out of soda cans with my .22 air-rifle when I was a kid - I had a .177 too, but the .22 was more fun (and I wouldn't like to catch a hollowhead pellet from one either, could be nasty).

Whether I'd own a gun? Probably not with any intention of ever using it in a violent situation, no, but shooting for fun, yes, it's enjoyable. I suppose growing up in a society where they aren't common makes me wary - and I suspect this is the root of most European's nervousness about the issue.
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