I need to raise $$$ for bandwidth and ....

[Memnoch]

You may be overreacting a bit here, Reeka - I hear what you're saying, but I don't think that replying to Dan saying "I've donated" is done with intent to make others feel inadequate. I think it's just people telling Dan that they are going to donate, in reply to his thread. I really don't think they're bignoting themselves.

Personally I think people are reading FAR too much into this donation thing and starting to go off on all sorts of tangents. Whether this is done in public or private is immaterial IMHO. If someone wants to announce that they've donated, LET THEM, it's their right. We don't sanction an official recognition system here. That's the policy. But we can't stop them putting a "I'm An IW Donator" message on their sig if they so choose, for example.

If donators want to keep a low profile and do it via email to Z, that's cool too. The manner in which a voluntary donation is done is up to the individual. I would have thought this was pretty simple.

Some people will appreciate knowing who's donating, others won't. That's life. Like I said before, we don't sanction an official recognition system here - but we will thank people for their donations both publicly and privately.

My concern is that all this will cause people to stop donating because they don't want to be classified as being one thing or another. We would indeed be shooting ourselves in the foot if this ended up being an outcome of all this.

[Moiraine]

Reeka, I have sent a mail to Dan, but I am never sure if he gets the mails he's been sent or not, that's why I decided to say it again in here, because 1) his last post here seemed very upset about the lack of donations, and 2) because I thought maybe if he didn't get my mail he would probably read my post here. I had absolutely no idea it could have been read the way you did. So, if I offended anyone, please accept my apologies. Be sure that the idea of belonging to some kind of "Ironworks elite" because I am 38 and no longer 17 never never crossed my mind. If I had been at home, I would have sent the money and said nothing in here.

[Moiraine]

Originally posted by Yorick: quote: Originally posted by Moiraine: Ziroc, as I told you by mail, I'll send you something via paypal next week, as soon as I'm back home from holidays.

It's the M'OYSTER!

Good to see you here old friend. [img]smile.gif[/img] [/QUOTE]LOL ! Hi, Yozza ! [img]graemlins/happywave.gif[/img] And you didn't even read my waaay longer post in the pedophilia thread, nor my brand new thread about family trees ... *SIGH* [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[Reeka]

No, of course anyone can say anything they wish in a thread within reason and I certainly did not mean for these posts to be edited or deleted. I just have found it quite ironic for some of the advocates of the "no class system" have created a de facto class system in saying they have donated. I do not believe that this was done maliciously, but I do believe that it was done unthinkingly. I know that e-mail can be "iffy," hence the beauty of our new PM system. Also, if it were me, I suppose I would contact one trusted person to check and see if Z were receiving his e-mail.

I was in my post merely pointing out the strangeness of attitude I found in those who advocate no way of knowing who gives money or not and then in the same post turn around and say, "oh, and by the way, I gave money." I personally feel that this is the very reason that in other money threads, there have been those who have felt like they had to post and justify why they are not in a position to send money. I find this to be very sad and it breaks my heart to read these posts.

I suppose according to you, Mem, it is a mute issue away since anyone who gives money has the ability to put something about it in their sig anyway. Of course someone could put in their sig about their donations, but at best I would think they were bragging and if they were an advocate of the "no class system," I would think them a hypocrite, as putting something like that in their sig would pressure others into following suit, thus creating a class system.

I believe that true charity and giving seeks no recognition. That it is done quietly, discreetly, and where possible, annonymously. Personally, I think any donations to IW should be between Z and the person donating, and should be done not to receive any recognition but in appreciation for all Z has done for us.

Mem, I am sure that if as you say people do not want to be classified as a donator or not, there is a very simple means of doing so----never give out that information, particularly in a thread like this.

[ 05-11-2002, 07:02 PM: Message edited by: Reeka ]

[Lord of Alcohol]

I for one merely stated that I had given money in the past but could not for awhile. And I was also against "special priveliges". Where you think I was asking for recognition in that post is beyond me. If you look at the various donation threads over the years I think you will find many people said they were sending money. So its really no secret. And at no time have I seen anyone mention a specific amount. So I think your wrong by equating someone saying that had donated to someone asking for recognition. As a matter of fact it likely brings in donations! If someone says they have donated another is more likely to donate without feeling like a chump. I like you a lot Reeka but I disagree with you on this. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Reeka]

I will reiterate that I did not say this was done maliciously, but unthinkingly. I must disagree with you that it would inspire more donations. I mean why would anyone feel like a chump for sending in money anway? Sorry, but I can't see that. And as far as the amount not being mentionned, that, in my opinion, is completely irrelevant to what I am talking about. Whether the amount is $1, $10, $100 or a $1,000, it will still make the person who cannot give any feel bad. And I have to correct you, Pauly, people HAVE mentionned specific amounts they were sending in these threads. Perhaps you missed those posts. I am not talking about this specific thread, but threads in the past. The server money thread comes to mind and there have been others.

[Lord of Alcohol]

If people see that nobody is donating then they are less likely to donate in my opinion. If they see 5 people saying yes I've donated then they are more likely to send money. This is the Internet and there are many scams going around. So if someone says they sent money it helps assuage any fears of being ripped off. My original thoughts were donating should gain no special privelages, and I stand by that. By my mentioning I HAD donated I thought I made myself clear that I would NOT want any "avatar" because I had. Nor would I ever. The reason I mentioned I donated (and I'm sure almost everyone else who said so) was for that very reason!

[Reeka]

I see your point, Pauly, and as I said I did not think it was done maliciously but perhaps thoughtlessly. I can see your reasoning, but still feel that it will make others feel bad (I mean I think the evidence speaks for itself in the number of people who feel they must justify why they cannot send money.) And as far as people wanting Dan to know that they are sending money or not, what is wrong with an e-mail or a PM? I suppose it may cause someone to not give (and perhaps if someone has not been around long enough to know that Z is not a scam artist they should not be giving anyway.) I still feel that at the end of the day it causes more harm than good. I mean think about it, if it didn't bother people why would they make posts trying to in their opinion make themselves not look bad for not sending money. And as for the posts made giving amounts, (not that you have ever done this), I feel there is no excuse for that.

You are a good person, Pauly (you know that I know that--you have helped me out on occasions.) We will just have to agree to disagree on this one.

[Lord of Alcohol]

Ok Reeka, we'll leave it at that [img]smile.gif[/img] Its not really worth argueing about anyway is it? [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Reeka]

Nope, that is what makes the world go round--people being different. And as they say about opinions--everyone has one.