Asylum seekers - what should be done?

[Memnoch]

I don't know how much of you have been keeping up to date with the latest refugee "crisis" to hit Australia. Here's a quick overview.

On Wednesday, 18 Special Air Service troops boarded the Tampa to prevent it from landing as it headed into Christmas Island without Australia's permission.

The background: On August 25 an Australian Coastwatch plane flying the line between Australian and Indonesian waters spotted an old Indonesian ferry with an SOS painted on its roof and reported its position to Indonesian authorities. The Norwegian cargo ship Tampa altered course after being alerted by Australian Search and Rescue in Canberra and picked up 438 mainly Afghani and Sri Lankan passengers from the sinking ferry on August 26.


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• Captain Arne Rinner, who with a crew of 27 was shipping Australian export goods to Singapore, says when he told the boatpeople he would take them to an Indonesian port 10 hours away, they started acting in an "aggressive and highly excited manner, and threatening to go overboard, some wanted to go back to the sinking ferry".
"We thought the situation was getting out of control," he said, so he asked Australian Search and Rescue what he should do. "They said, if we felt threatened, it was entirely the master's choice," he said. So he turned about and headed for Christmas Island four hours away.

• On August 27 Prime Minister John Howard said it was a problem for Norway and Indonesia, and Australia would not give the ship permission to enter Australian waters and disembark the boatpeople at Christmas Island, which had received almost 1,000 immigrants in the last two weeks.

``This is a very difficult, sad situation,'' Mr Howard told parliament. ``We have sought on all occasions to balance against the undoubted right of this country to decide who comes here ... against our humanitarian obligations as a warm-hearted, decent international citizen.''

• The Indonesian and Norwegian governments took the same stance. On August 28, as the boatpeople staged a hunger strike and conditions on board the stationary ship deteriorated, the Australian, Norwegian and Indonesian governments continued to debate the problem, with Indonesia indicating it was likely to accept the asylum seekers on a temporary basis.

But, even with Indonesia's permission, the captain does not believe the ship can make the voyage now with 438 agitated boatpeople on board.

``The tension is increasing down there (on the deck). As long as they see Christmas Island they are behaving quietly,'' he told Reuters.


As a humanitarian I fully sympathize with these refugees and their plight. I can only imagine the courage it must have taken to make a decision to flee an oppressive regime (Iraq in this case), get on a rickety boat, and set sail for a country half a world away, only to arrive and find out that that country doesn't want you and refuses to take you. It's heartbreaking. The Catholic in me says that we should take them in.

On the other hand, from a national standpoint Australia's stance is understandable (if not morally acceptable) - if they set a precedent by accepting these people now, what will be in place to prevent tens of thousands of others doing the same, filling Australia's already crowded asylum processing centres to overflowing? More importantly, how can they be fit into the asylum seeking process as a whole? Should more detention camps be built? Should these people get processed ahead of other asylum seekers who have already waited here in Australia (in some cases for a number of years?).

Australia accepts about 100,000 new migrants that apply through official channels each year, as well as 10,000 refugees formally resettled by the UN, as well as 5,000 illegal immigrants that arrive here by boat. I guess some of these people are seen as "queue-jumpers" who didn't want to wait to be processed at official UN refugee resettlement centres in Indonesia.

Indonesia is not a signatory to the UN convention on refugees and rarely accepts them into its own communities. However, it does have a well-established UN facility for processing asylum-seekers. Merat, where the Australian Government wants the 438 asylum-seekers on the Tampa to disembark, has an established UN presence.

If their refugee status is acknowledged by the UN's High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) after a series of interviews, it is up to developed countries to say they will take them in. Delays, however, are common.

Of 4,000 people who have gone through the facilities in Indonesia during the surge of activity in the past 12 months, about 1,500 remain in camps, unsure of their status. Just 500 were granted refugee status.

The country director for UNHCR in Indonesia, Mr Raymond Hall, said the slow settlement process had led to some of the same protests among detainees that have been experienced in Australia.

"We've had a series of demonstrations, from recognised Iraqi refugees notably, who are protesting about not having found placement in third countries," Mr Hall told ABC radio.

"Here in Indonesia being determined to be a refugee is only a step in the direction of a solution. You still have to find a country which will actually accept the refugees. And that is quite difficult to do." He said Indonesia was a major point of departure for asylum-seekers wanting to go to Australia.

I guess my questions are: 1) do you think Australia are taking the right approach; and 2) how are asylum seekers in other developed countries (Europe, US) treated? I know that it can take up to 10 years for a US greencard to be processed.

There's got to be a better way than how we're doing it at the moment.

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[This message has been edited by Memnoch (edited 08-29-2001).]

At the moment we have a problem with Assylum seekers riding in on the Eurotunnel trains, and the government to proposing to fine the Eurotunnel consortium for each person found on the trains. The thing is that the holding facilities in France for these people are near the Eurotunnel freight terminals so the people just jump on a train and try to ride into Britain.

My concern is that we don't have enough resources to help these people, I mean our health service is crumbling through lack of funds, our rail network fell to pieces due to under investment. The sheltering of assylum seekers and then relocating them around the country is an expensive task, and I'm not sure that in the long term the current rate of assylum seekers entering the country is sustainable. Also we don't have enough jobs for the people already here so there is less chance these people will find work quickly

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Holy Avenger of the OHF and part time Pinguindiebjäger

[WOLFGIR]

A very good question Memnoch.

Unfortunately i don´t think there is one country that can be proud over there situation with how they handle refugees..

Here in Sweden we take on soe immigrants, but we are not that many people and can only take so many persons. We give both temporary asylum and also we take some for life. We try make a judgement on how the possibilities are that a person can within reasonable time and/or without risk return to their country. If they can in time return, they don´t get a Swedish stateship, but are treated as a refugee.

The best thing done was probably the way things with the jugoslavia cirises, though that could be better dealt with, they got a country they could return to.

Unfortunately, there are many countries you can´t go back to becuse the political or agricultural or whatever the reason to flee is still not better.

The best way in my mind is well, only IMHO, to try and work for solutions in the countries with the problems that makes people depserate to leave them... This is not easy however and i also thik that more countries have to work together to take the refugees and well try to give them the best solution any country can.

In the aspect of Australia and how they have acted, I think that Australia has done a reasonable call here. One can´t take too many refugees. That lead to a worse treatment. Also conflicts between inhabitants and refugees can occur as well...

There are always problems, and of course the best eway would be if no one had to leave their country.. But that is Utopia again, and well.. Tough calls have to be made sometimes..



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Be vevvy qwiet..I´m hunting wabbits...
Wolfgirs lair
once-upon-a-paper

[Yorick]

Man it is such a conundrum. I think most of the western nations face such dillemmas. Tough as it is, were I an asylum seeker beeing shunted around while debate raged as to where I should go, I would be devastated. I reckon let them in. An asylum seeker can't go back from where they came.

Pity they can't just set up Christmas island as their home, as a refugee base.



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I am the walrus!.... er, no hang on....

A fair dinkum laughing Hyena!

[Epona]

I would be happy to welcome people in. It must take a great deal of courage and no small measure of desparation to leave your homeland with nothing. Let people come, let them find work and contribute to society (as the vast majority want to but are prevented by immigration laws).

The NHS and public transport in Britain would never have been as successful as it was had it not been for people coming here to work - immigrant labour helped to build and run a good deal of our services.

As far as these people being a 'drain' on society goes, many of these people have skills that could be put to use in our public services which are understaffed. They would then be earning money and pay taxes. They would buy more goods. Although we are entering a period of recession at the moment, the birth-rate in northern Europe has fallen to the extent that, come the next period of growth, we will not have the labour force required to run anything like the services we need.

Welcome immigrants of all kinds, we need them.

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Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so.

Epona of The Laughing Hyenas

[MILAMBER]

Here in Southern California we really are effected by this. I live just an hour and a half north of Mexico. Mexicans are constantly sneaking across the border no matter what precautions the Border Patrol takes. As a result, there are thousands of illegal aliens that come in every year. By California Law, if they come to our state and have a child, they can become legal citizens and our government won't deport them. While I agree with that, there are tens of thousands if immigrants here that don't pay taxes, yet depend on the government for health care and so on. They also live in sub standard conditions, because some companies will exploit their labor. The companies know they need jobs, so they will pay them far below minimum wage and the laborers can do nothing about it.

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"The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his."
-General George Patton (1885-1945)

Member of CLAN HADB

[Aelia Jusa]

So many people in Australia complain about asylum seekers, and act like they're just coming here because they've heard it's a great country - like it's some trivial decision to leave their homeland where they imagined they'd live forever, where, if they're lucky their family still lives. It must be so devastating to feel like you just can't live in your home country anymore. Then people say they're just trying to rort the system and slow up the processing by not bringing identification papers and passports - most people probably don't even have a passport. As for John Howard, this decision is clearly politically minded - it's election year and he likes to follow the polls - lots of Australians are angry about immigration so he finds a situation where he can take advantage of that and garner public support.

[Donut]

No easy solution here. As has already been said it is election time in Australia and asylum seekers are an easy target. The same thing happened in Britain before our election.

The latest news is the Indonesian Government has threatened military action if the ship returns to Indonesia.

What I can't understand is how Norway can be involved. They picked these people up at the request of the Australian Coastguards. I guess they won't do that again. Next time they will be left to drown.

Just a couple of other points. Australia is the only 'Westernised' country in the world which has a policy of mandatory incarceration for asylum seekers, they lock them away in prison camps.

I have at least five members of the Irish side of my family working illegally in the USA. There must be tens of thousands of Irish people who are illegal immigrants there. Why doesn't anyone make a fuss about them the way they do about the Mexicans? It couldn't be the colour of their skin could it?

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Save Chip - Don't let Sarah win!
Official Titterer of the Laughing Hyenas

Originally posted by Donut: No easy solution here. As has already been said it is election time in Australia and asylum seekers are an easy target. The same thing happened in Britain before our election. The latest news is the Indonesian Government has threatened military action if the ship returns to Indonesia. What I can't understand is how Norway can be involved. They picked these people up at the request of the Australian Coastguards. I guess they won't do that again. Next time they will be left to drown. Just a couple of other points. Australia is the only 'Westernised' country in the world which has a policy of mandatory incarceration for asylum seekers, they lock them away in prison camps. I have at least five members of the Irish side of my family working illegally in the USA. There must be tens of thousands of Irish people who are illegal immigrants there. Why doesn't anyone make a fuss about them the way they do about the Mexicans? It couldn't be the colour of their skin could it?

or could it be that the Irish lobby has the ear of the President


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Holy Avenger of the OHF and part time Pinguindiebjäger

[WOLFGIR]

Originally posted by Donut: What I can't understand is how Norway can be involved. They picked these people up at the request of the Australian Coastguards. I guess they won't do that again. Next time they will be left to drown.

As far as I like to play crude jokes onmy fellow Scandinavian neighbours, the Norweigians have a proud seafararer tradition, and their cpatians and crew are held in high regards wherever they come!

I think that most captains (regardless of nation) will pick up people in need. I myself haven´t been to the seas but a friend of mine told me that most sailors, have a code that they simple call the sea. Not much have changed, and that code binds people on the sea together even if the mainland parts them.

Fortunately, there are people that still will give a helping hand, though this recent incident has escalated in proportion and now, well, I gonna keep my voice shut, cause i don´t see any easy reasolve to this affair.


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Be vevvy qwiet..I´m hunting wabbits...
Wolfgirs lair
once-upon-a-paper