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Old 08-22-2001, 02:56 PM   #191
Legolas the Elven Archer
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Ah, yes. Good ol' marching order. I lost count, but in BG2 my weaker party members always ended up in front when I moved to a new area, no matter what I tried. And believe me, that's really annoying.

It would be good to have something like that in your game (what's it going to be called? Need some suggestions on that?) if only because annoying things like that are no positive modifier on a game's replay value.

I was wondering how you were dealing with the combats. Do you use a system like in BG (compare THACO with AC and roll a die) or did you chose a system with more factors than that? (in warhammer, it's compare Weapon Skill with opponent's weapon skill to determine if you hit, Compare strength with toughness to determine if you hit a place where you can inflict a serious wound, then roll a die to see if the opponent's armour protects him or not (modified by the strength of the attacker), followed by another unmodified save for certain rare troops or characters with the right magical equipment)
The advantage of an AD&D like system is it's simplicity; it doesn't take a lot of dice (just one) and it doesn't take up much space either. It also means each model needs only three characteristics (HP, THACO and AC). It does mean that there's less variety in the bonusses from magical items and the characteristics of the creatures themselves.

------------------
The last arrow of Legolas kindled in the air as it flew,
and plunged burning into the heart of a great wolf-chieftain.
All the others fled. -J.R.R. Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings
 
Old 08-23-2001, 04:54 AM   #192
Morgan_Corbesant
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Join Date: August 19, 2001
Location: Portland, Oregon
Age: 45
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just go to a book store. i got all of my d&d books from barnes and noble, and powells books. if you go to powells, you should be able to get a used one for around eight bucks. it will come in handy i know, because im writing a novel, and that book come in HANDY. anywho, ill talk to you all later.

just my two gold pieces

------------------
Morgan Corbesant, Elven BladeSinger, Captain of the army of the Seldarine
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Old 08-23-2001, 09:15 AM   #193
Melusine
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Join Date: January 8, 2001
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Quote:
Originally posted by Morgan_Corbesant:
just go to a book store. i got all of my d&d books from barnes and noble, and powells books. if you go to powells, you should be able to get a used one for around eight bucks. it will come in handy i know, because im writing a novel, and that book come in HANDY. anywho, ill talk to you all later.

just my two gold pieces

yes, but -this might be a shock to some- we don't all live in America...
So no Barnes & Noble or Powell.
Link's best bet (being Dutch) would be the American Bookstore (in Amsterdam and the Hague) or ordering through an online bookshop (where again, B&N wouldn't be the best choice due to the cost...use bookshops based in Europe to lower shipping expenses).

------------------
Melusine, High Queen of Fluffies, Archbabe of the OHF, the LH,
the HADB and the SPAE(Society for the
Prevention of Acronym Extinction) &
Official Entertainer Elf of the BG2 Bar

Your voice is ambrosia
Amy Brown Fantasy Art

[This message has been edited by Melusine (edited 08-23-2001).]
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Old 08-23-2001, 07:07 PM   #194
Bleys
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Join Date: March 14, 2001
Location: Oxford, UK
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If you want to stop players becoming powerful in every class make is so in order to get to the top of a class you have to devote so much experience and practice to gaining the most powerful abilities you cannot develop them all during the course of the game. Also if the player does not practice a skill for a long time it goes down over time, e.g. a fighter that spends 90% of his time studding a spell book is going to start to loose his combat abilities. So the player has a choose be a jack of all trades, or be a master of one class.

When it comes to the combat system, it all depends on how much detail you want to put in. BG uses a simplified version of AD&D, it covers non of the more complex side of the rules, like charging, firing into combat, and attacks of opportunity. In the end it comes down to how many details do you want to take into acount.
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Old 08-25-2001, 06:19 AM   #195
Legolas the Elven Archer
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Old 08-26-2001, 11:10 AM   #196
Legolas the Elven Archer
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Quote:
Originally posted by me:
 
Old 08-26-2001, 09:10 PM   #197
Haddar - Servant of Talos
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Bumpellibump bump
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Old 08-27-2001, 09:07 AM   #198
Link
Jack Burton
 

Join Date: May 15, 2001
Location: The Netherlands
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OK OK.. You can hit me if you ever encounter me (Legolas is the only one who does have a chance)!!! I know i've been pretty lazy, not replying and stuff like that. OK. First of all, i wanna thank you guys for all the things you advised. Most of them (read: all of them) were quite usefull, and have brought me to new ideas over and over again. Thanks for that!

OK. About the game. I've been considering a name for it, and i have come up with a few, but it has to been a cool name. I thought Legend was ok, but i definitely need your opinions on that.
Second: about losing your experience when you're not (for instance) fighting. I think that's a pretty good idea, and very realistic indeed. In real life, you'll lose your experience too, when you haven't done something for ages. But what if you want to regain that experience? The suggestions were that you would have to relearn things, and therefore could not be a master in all styles of attacking (magic, fighting, etc). If we want to compare things to real life (which IS a good idea; i think no gamer likes to be confronted with things that can't really happen in real life (except for magic and stuff like that). I think some sort of realistic point of view is definitely necessary in a game. It will allowe the gamer to, well, " see himself in the game" . If y'all understand what i'm saying. It's like reading a book: everyone adds something of himself to the main character; when you play things realistic, it can be more fun then else. At least that's what i think).

Another " question" i got is for the storyline. I think we all agree on the part that there should be a "solid" storyline, one that cannot be broken anyhow, but the gamer can be of some influence to that storyline. The problem is that I'm not quite sure which parts of the game are "solid" (that means: should be done that particular way), and which parts should not.
An example: Zelda Ocarina of Time. If you take a look at this game, you can see that you're not allowed to do very much by yourself. You have to follow a certain path in the game, and that path only will allowe you to face the Ultimate Evil (or Ganon/Ganondorf). You basically cannot interfere with this. This gaming style has two conclusions:

1) You cannot interfere with the solid storyline: actions you make are either right or wrong (right: you go through, wrong: you have to do it over again). You cannot do it wrong and still go on playing the game.
2) The second thing is the thing that troubles me the most. I think when you allowe the game to be like that, you take away hard things. As said in point one: you cannot interfere, everything is wrong or right. This means that the game can be ended relativally easily, compared to games like BG2, which allowes you to take countless different ways of finishing the game.
(I don't know if my point is seen this way, i tried to explain it, but my English won't allowe me to explain things perfectly well)

OK. Now that we've dealt with that i will explain the rest of this " problem". As you all know, the game will consist of the MQ (Major Quest), which is to defeat the Upholder, and return home, and a couple of relativally smaller quests, which you can do, but which are not necessary. Those quests can be placed in a certain order (but this will take you one step closer to Zelda like games), or in no order; you can do whenever, and however(however is of course, something that is "solid" in the complete story). This last thing would take you more in the direction of quests in BG2 (quests like the De'Arnise Hold, the Umar Hills etc.). Of course these quests DO serve a purpose; you can gain experience/ weapon skills when doing the quests, but they are not necessary for the story(line).
There is, of course, a third option. You can combine both methods, by saying that certain quests ARE indeed necessary, and others are not (that would take us more or less to the part of BG2 when you go to Spellhold, or, another example, ToB) This is, according to me, the best option, AND solution, because you will on the one hand force the gamer to do certain quests, and on the other hand, you allowe them to choose if they either do the quests or not.

Phew.. I'm sweating all over now, cos it's pretty warm here. I hope this is enough reading for you all, and i do hope everything is clear this way; i know it's kinda fuzzy sometimes, but hey! I'm just a student, so don't blame me!!!!

One last thing: You all know what the story will be like. I therefore have a detailed (sort of) intro;
" Somewhere in the South American jungle, three people (you, a women and a man) are leading an archaeological search party. You found certain clay tablets which indicate that there's a hidden temple nearby. After two long and hard weeks you find the temple."

**I interrupt this, because there's a question involved here. I think it would be great to allow the player to do the rest (entering the temple, finding keys to open doors, and eventually get warped to the Halfworld). This will of course be some sort of Tutorial, you'll get warmed up for the actual game, and after you get warped, the intro movie starts. After that, you'll be able to verify gender, race, etc. ( this will not, i repeat, NOT be the same as BG2. According to me there was way to much chosing in BG2).**

" You gain access to the temple, and then the "first adventure" begins. Only the three of you enter the temple, because the locals you hired to help you are too scared to go in (They say that there's something weird, and unearthly about the temple) (I was thinking BTW: wouldn't it be cool if you'd take a dog with you inside the warp room. Then the three of you (and the dog) get warped, and arrive on different places in the halfworld. Your actions against your two companions will eventually determine which one of them (or two) will defect to the Upholder's side. The dog will stay with you, and can help you on certain things, that could be something original in a game like this) You have to solve certain puzzles (for instance: a huge, sun shaped block, is standing in the hall, that leads towards the " warproom". You'll have to remove it, in case to get through). Eventually you'll reach the warp room, and in the center of the room, a ray of light eluminates a book. The dog starts the growl, but the three of you move on towards the closed book. The moment you touch the rune (which is the Rune of Travel, which you will find out later on in the game), the room gets fuzzy, and you are transported to the Halfworld, where the adventure begins..."

So.. what do you think of it??

" LEGEND "

.....believe the unbelievable.....

------------------
In the foul darkness one figure will emerge to save the world from evil and despair.... Light flashes as his sword comes down, and thunder rolls through the sky when he points his sword up to heaven to signal his victory....People whisper his name as he walks by, evil tries to hide as they sense his presence nearby.... His name? Link......
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Old 08-27-2001, 10:13 AM   #199
Legolas the Elven Archer
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I think just "Legend" doesn't sound entirely right. Giving it a name like "Legend: Enter the Halfworld" or something is, in my opinion, much better. After all, they've done the same thing with Zelda (The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of time/seasons/ages, Link's awakening and so on), although Nintendo's excuse is that there are numerous games with the same main characters.


As for losing experience, that is something which just has to be included, because it is actually quite original and that's just what we want. But, once you've spent a certain amount of time learning a skill, you'll never entirely forget how to do it. You may get a lot worse at it (which is especially dangerous if you try magic), but you'll always remember a bit.


As for the quests, I think that I would always do as many quests as I can find, just to get the experience. Maybe you should balance things out a bit, like when you don't do a certain quest, you'll be offered another one, which you couldn't access before, or the MQ gets a bit longer. There might be a forest in the way, filled with smaller creatures to give you the experience you missed for refusing the quest. This also offers more oppertunities for evil characters who don't want to help everyone out but do want the experience. This also gives the game a higher replay value.

So, if you don't force players to do quests, but still give them an oppertunity to advance in level, people can really play themselves in the game.

Even the MQ doesn't have to be set. Sure, you'll need that sword and have to defeat the Upholder, but when and where you attack him depends on where the Upholder is. Maybe you've convinced some townspeople to lure the Upholder out of it's lair and into the open, or it may decide to travel somewhere else himself (with an entourage of mosters, ofcourse). The sword too, could be moved. If you take your time playing through the game, the Upholder's minions might retrieve it, or maybe there's a third party selling it to the highest bidder.


And then there's the tutorial. Other than learning to move around, I don't think it is nessecary to include one in the game. As soon as you join a guild, one of the members can start lecturing you, telling you about the skills you may learn. When asked, other townsfolk might help you too, offering directions, telling where to find quests or explaining a new skill you've just gained. Then again, maybe they would cower before your might (at the higher levels, that is).


Finally, the dog thing. It is a good idea, and it may be fun too. You may even let the character train the dog instead of practicing for the guild, teaching skills like fetch, stay, guard and roll over (which may have some use I haven't figured out yet), or, instead of a dog, you may get the Halfworld equivalent.

------------------
The last arrow of Legolas kindled in the air as it flew,
and plunged burning into the heart of a great wolf-chieftain.
All the others fled. -J.R.R. Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings
 
Old 08-28-2001, 05:53 AM   #200
Link
Jack Burton
 

Join Date: May 15, 2001
Location: The Netherlands
Age: 39
Posts: 5,888
Sure.. I agree that a tutorial shouldn't be big, or hard. But that's not what i had in mind. The other two (or three if you count the dog in) in you team can say, if you find a big boulder, standing in you way:
" Maybe with could push it"
Then they can learn you how to push & pull, or something like that.

* Note *
Please keep in mind that the game is a RPG with a combat mode, which enables you to push and pull (for instance).

------------------
In the foul darkness one figure will emerge to save the world from evil and despair.... Light flashes as his sword comes down, and thunder rolls through the sky when he points his sword up to heaven to signal his victory....People whisper his name as he walks by, evil tries to hide as they sense his presence nearby.... His name? Link......
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