10-08-2001, 03:34 PM | #11 | |
Very Mad Bird
Join Date: January 7, 2001
Location: Breukelen (over the river from New Amsterdam)
Age: 52
Posts: 9,246
|
Quote:
Regarding a "Christian nation" the concept is quite contradictory. A nation of Christians is attainable however. America is based on, though divergant from, Christian values of human rights, equality, respect and justice. America may not be a Christian nation, but it is a nation of many Christians. It's a far more spiritually aware nation than the very secular nation of Australia for example. That's not to say Australian spirituality is lesser than Americas, but that it is easier to be a Christian or Jew here than there, from my experience. I think sometimes a "Christian nation" can actualy disguise the difference that Christ makes in humanity, blurring the lines between having him and not. Spending time in predominantly Buddhist or Hindu nations/provinces radically changed my perception of the Christian Church in general, and gave me a grace for imperfections within Churches I previously did not have. I do believe that capitalism is a world religion though, and I have mentioned this before. The stock market is he bible, futures speculators are the prophets, consultants and market analysts are the priests, advertising geniuses are the evangelists, the bottom line is the god, and growth and profit are the measure of sucess. The aim is to exist within the context of a nation, yet not be bound by values which conflict with christian values of not worshiping money, giving to the poor and oppressed, placing others needs and Gods will before ones own, and measuring sucess in terms of inner peace, harmony, contentment, wisdom, love and joy, rather than an accumulation of material wealth. There have been many times in the past as a secular musician where I have had to place my values, integrity, and my perception of Gods will above attaining hordes of cash or the chance to attain stellar sucess. If either come my way, they will be on my own terms, and I will not be beholdant to a slavish desire for either. ------------------ I am the walrus!.... er, no hang on.... A fair dinkum laughing Hyena! |
|
10-08-2001, 03:39 PM | #12 |
Manshoon
Join Date: June 18, 2001
Location: England
Posts: 217
|
hmmmm, a tricky problem. i think, as an atheist, that capitalism is pretty bad as it's practiced - profit and the exploitation of others'. as a person brought up as a christian, i found that too many christians felt that as long as they could turn a blind eye to the world's poverty by throwing a few quid at it every now and again, their concience was salved.
i often would look at the houses and cars owned by christians of my acquaintance and thought, hmmmm, i don't see you making any effort to cast off the trammels of materialistic possesions. christ taught trust in one's creator to care for them as he cared for the birds. most people these days, trust money above all else as a solid guarantee of comfort. on the other hand, each of us has to live and provide for ourselves and others' in a purely practical way which calls for the earning and spending of money. a roof, clothing, food. however, to take the basics and be content is surely enough for anyone. it's the grasping and chasing of money that is obnoxious, particulalry for christians as their bible does dictate certain basics. so, all rich christians are hypocrites and shouold give away to deserving causes the excess that they posess and treat other human beings as equally deserving of the basics. ------------------ offended mistress of the illuminati |
10-08-2001, 06:15 PM | #13 | |
Fzoul Chembryl
Join Date: July 26, 2001
Location: Brighton, East Sussex, UK
Posts: 1,781
|
Quote:
------------------ Most Ecstatic and Exotic Mistress of the Illuminati |
|
10-08-2001, 08:36 PM | #14 | |
Very Mad Bird
Join Date: January 7, 2001
Location: Breukelen (over the river from New Amsterdam)
Age: 52
Posts: 9,246
|
Quote:
The commandments to care for the widows and orphans, the edict to leave the surplus wheat ungathered for the poor to take (instead of dumping it in the ocean as now), the commandments involving morality, the stories that give moral guidance. Judaism is based on the old testament. Many Pentecostals delve into the old testament with fervour for human rights, morals and the like. ------------------ I am the walrus!.... er, no hang on.... A fair dinkum laughing Hyena! |
|
10-08-2001, 08:46 PM | #15 | |
Ninja Storm Shadow
Join Date: March 27, 2001
Location: Northport,Alabama, USA
Age: 62
Posts: 3,577
|
Quote:
------------------ Crustiest of the OLD COOTS Airline ticket to Afghanistan $800 High powered rifle with scope $1000 Hotel room with roof access $100 A clean Head shot on that sack of Horse Manure Usuma Bin Laden PRICELESS! |
|
10-08-2001, 08:59 PM | #16 |
Guest
Posts: n/a
|
Hmmmmm...I cant explain all that paradox because it's as full of paradox as any given person is.
"Do unto others as you would have others do unto you" I think this applies to doing to others what they have already done to you as well. In the "us -vs- them" competitive mentality you want to do unto others first what you dont want others to do unto you. It is a conflict of ideas, a paradox. The world is full of hypocrisy, and as individuals, we can root out and face our own. |
10-08-2001, 09:06 PM | #17 | |
Very Mad Bird
Join Date: January 7, 2001
Location: Breukelen (over the river from New Amsterdam)
Age: 52
Posts: 9,246
|
Quote:
If that were so it would say "Do unto others as they do unto you" Which is not what it says at all. Putting yourself in the other persons shoes is the aim of the teaching. Doing what you would want them to do to you. It's more than a superficial "I'd like them to buy me a guitar, so I'll buy them a guitar" as they may hate the guitar. A truer aplication would be finding what is important to them and providing that. If we were a beggar would we want someone to give us a quarter? Of course. An easy one. Just because no-one has given you money (as per "do as done") is no reason not to give money to the beggar. ------------------ I am the walrus!.... er, no hang on.... A fair dinkum laughing Hyena! |
|
10-08-2001, 09:12 PM | #18 | |
Ninja Storm Shadow
Join Date: March 27, 2001
Location: Northport,Alabama, USA
Age: 62
Posts: 3,577
|
Quote:
I may not be the brightest bulb in the chandelier but, don't specific words have specific meanings? Or are we just going to change the meanings of words on our own.... a kind of language anarchy? ------------------ Crustiest of the OLD COOTS Airline ticket to Afghanistan $800 High powered rifle with scope $1000 Hotel room with roof access $100 A clean Head shot on that sack of Horse Manure Usuma Bin Laden PRICELESS! |
|
10-08-2001, 09:58 PM | #19 | |
Guest
Posts: n/a
|
Quote:
regardless of their future intentions or past actions toward you. How do you want to be treated, as a person... or as a nation? Behave in away toward others as you WOULD have other behave toward you. Thats what it says. Still no real expalination here. Either one lives by a creed like that, or one doesnt. I'm not judging anyone, just pointing out that phrase in the spirit of the original topic. Its one I believe in. Its the Bible's Karma concept to me. [This message has been edited by G'kar (edited 10-08-2001).] |
|
10-08-2001, 10:40 PM | #20 | |
Ironworks Moderator
Join Date: January 7, 2001
Location: Monroe, LA
Age: 60
Posts: 7,387
|
Quote:
Cheers, ------------------ |
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests) | |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Capitalism in America | Sir Taliesin | General Discussion | 7 | 07-18-2003 11:14 PM |
Capitalism Defined! (Just in case you really didn't know) | MagiK | General Conversation Archives (11/2000 - 01/2005) | 6 | 03-04-2002 08:15 PM |
Question on Christianity. | Gabriel | General Conversation Archives (11/2000 - 01/2005) | 74 | 01-25-2002 07:35 PM |
Why has the Capitalism/Christianity thread been locked? | Diogenes Of Pumpkintown | General Conversation Archives (11/2000 - 01/2005) | 41 | 10-10-2001 10:37 PM |
capitalism. free trade. comments, please | tracey | General Conversation Archives (11/2000 - 01/2005) | 13 | 10-02-2001 06:20 PM |