Wicca and Other forms of Neo Paganism

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Silver Cheetah: Um, Yorick. Worshiping nature IS worshiping the artist who made it! I don't see nature as being separate from the divine, I totally recognise it as part of the divine, holy, as are you. As am I. I believe that we are all part of god, a living, evolving, concious universe. Not quite sure I understand that last paragraph - to be honest (I know nothing about black magic, let me just make that clear.) What you call 'magic' or 'witchcraft' is unfortunately larded with superstition and fear. Ritual is just a way of focusing intention, to my mind, to swing some energy behind whatever it is you are trying to do. (Like developing patience, for example, or opening the heart, or achieving your life purpose, or accessing your creativity, or getting the willpower to stop smoking, or to send love and light to a friend, or an enemy for that matter. Personally, I use what you are calling 'magic' very seldom, when I do, it's to support the process I have just described, of personal change, in one way or another. IMHO, the energy used during ritual is very similar to that of prayer, at least IMHO. Ritual doesn't work without passion, and passion is the live energy of prayer. They are the same things. Unfortunately, there are many people around who use these quite simple management techniques things (because that is what they are) to control and/or influence other people. (Or try to.) I firmly believe that they are for use in one's own personal development, although I do like rituals that generate energy for the greater good, and leave it to the divine as to what form that will take.

Silver, worshiping a creator awareness seperate from creation is totally different from the pantheistic view of worshipping a conjoined creation/creator. In essence you are worshipping yourself, me and the moon. It is akin to a painted character worshipping the painting - itself, the image next to it, and the canvass itself as being the creator of itself.

I percieve a painter. I worship the Creator, and see creation as seperate. Very different.

Thus prayer and magic are totally different. Prayer is communication with the said creator. Praising, requesting, thanking, simply being with he that made us.

Magic is a means to an end. It is summoning strength into oneself for a certain end. Prayer by contrast can be an end in itself. One does not just pray to get something.




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I am the walrus!.... er, no hang on....

A fair dinkum laughing Hyena!

[Silver Cheetah]

DOUBLE POST DELETED. SHOULD REALLY GO TO BED. FAR TOO TIRED. BUT THIS IS SO INTERESTING........ DAMN YOU DIO, WHY DO YOU OPEN A REALLY INTERESTING THREAD JUST WHEN I'M ABOUT TO GO TO MY BEDDY BYE...

[This message has been edited by Silver Cheetah (edited 09-28-2001).]

Originally posted by Yorick: I decry magik/magic/witchcraft though as a perversion of the earths laws, of an individuals right to non-interferance from external forces, and the removal of hope when the future is described to them. [/B]

Yorick, I'm shocked at you! You have been one of the most even-handed and open-minded folks on this board when it comes to differing religions and methods of worship, and to see you post something like this is disappointing.

FWIW, Diogenes, I'm a practicing Wiccan, and I'm looking forward to Samhain not only for the Sabbat, but also because it's my anniversary of 12 years.




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I must know more about this, please explain.?

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*\Conan/*

[Silver Cheetah]

Originally posted by Yorick: Silver, worshiping a creator awareness seperate from creation is totally different from the pantheistic view of worshipping a conjoined creation/creator. In essence you are worshipping yourself, me and the moon. It is akin to a painted character worshipping the painting - itself, the image next to it, and the canvass itself as being the creator of itself. I percieve a painter. I worship the Creator, and see creation as seperate. Very different. Thus prayer and magic are totally different. Prayer is communication with the said creator. Praising, requesting, thanking, simply being with he that made us. Magic is a means to an end. It is summoning strength into oneself for a certain end. Prayer by contrast can be an end in itself. One does not just pray to get something.

But the universe isn't like a painting, which is made, and is as it is. Nor am I, nor are you, nor is anything. All of life changes constantly, from one microsecond to the next, from the quantum level up to what we can see and experience.

If we worshiped each other, ourselves and the moon, and the earth, then I believe we would have more care, love and respect for them. Seeing things as separate from us is where all the trouble starts. If something is part of you, then you are more likely to look after it and love it. That's why the whole family thing can work so well, because we see our children as part of us. I see nothing wrong in that. With my body I thee worship. I like that. And with my mind and my spirit too.

I wasn't saying prayer and magic were totally the same, only that there is something of the same energy in both. Passion. Love. Ritual doesn't have to be about 'getting' something either. It can be about finding oneself in the act.

I also pray, although I call it meditation. For me, prayer and meditation are communication, communication with the essence of myself, and then moving out, beyond the barriers of the ego, into communion with the whole, which is a divine and transcendent experience (as is true, in the moment, communication with the self.)

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Ascended Mistress of Illumination OR Paws R Us

[This message has been edited by Silver Cheetah (edited 09-28-2001).]

[DragonMage]

Originally posted by Conan: I must know more about this, please explain.?

Well, there's another thread around here...about a week old. I'll try to dig it up using the search engine and post the link here. Hold on a minute. BRB!

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The day we stop learning is the day we start dying!(c)

Owner/operator of the Evil Petting Zoo and devout member of the HADB clan.
Commander of the Dragon Fleet, IW Peacekeeping Force
Sublime Sister of the Illuminati - may the Light shine forever!
Mage extraordinair.
Occasional minion to Gwhanos the Fluffy

Hopeless Romantic *sigh*

"Allright! We'll call it a draw."

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Absynthe: Yorick, I'm shocked at you! You have been one of the most even-handed and open-minded folks on this board when it comes to differing religions and methods of worship, and to see you post something like this is disappointing. FWIW, Diogenes, I'm a practicing Wiccan, and I'm looking forward to Samhain not only for the Sabbat, but also because it's my anniversary of 12 years.

Absynthe, tolerance and absorbtion are two different things. Just as rejecting an action or belief does not equal to rejecting an individual.
I would hope that you can tolerate my beliefs in the same way I tolerate yours. Respecting the right to hold them dispite stong disagreement with the content.

Besides, I'm a human being. If you deem me openminded I thankyou. It is something I seek to achieve. We all have limits to what we accept and believe though. It seems by your dissapointment you have reached your line and not accepted my view.

I still respect you though.



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I am the walrus!.... er, no hang on....

A fair dinkum laughing Hyena!

[DragonMage]

Here you go, Conan:

http://www.ironworks.com/ubb/NonCGI/...ML/003057.html
and
http://www.ironworks.com/ubb/NonCGI/...ML/003071.html


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The day we stop learning is the day we start dying!(c)

Owner/operator of the Evil Petting Zoo and devout member of the HADB clan.
Commander of the Dragon Fleet, IW Peacekeeping Force
Sublime Sister of the Illuminati - may the Light shine forever!
Mage extraordinair.
Occasional minion to Gwhanos the Fluffy

Hopeless Romantic *sigh*

"Allright! We'll call it a draw."

[Diogenes Of Pumpkintown]

Originally posted by Silver Cheetah: DOUBLE POST DELETED. SHOULD REALLY GO TO BED. FAR TOO TIRED. BUT THIS IS SO INTERESTING........ DAMN YOU DIO, WHY DO YOU OPEN A REALLY INTERESTING THREAD JUST WHEN I'M ABOUT TO GO TO MY BEDDY BYE... [This message has been edited by Silver Cheetah (edited 09-28-2001).]

Bwaahaahaaaa!!!!!!

I am just watching the discussion unfold.

As usual, i agree with what you are saying

Originally posted by Silver Cheetah: If we worshiped each other, ourselves and the moon, and the earth, then I believe we would have more care, love and respect for them. Seeing things as separate from us is where all the trouble starts. If something is part of you, then you are more likely to look after it and love it. That's why the whole family thing can work so well, because we see our children as part of us. I see nothing wrong in that. With my body I thee worship. I like that. And with my mind and my spirit too. communication with the self.

Is this wiccan beliefs?



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*\Conan/*