09-28-2001, 11:00 AM | #21 |
Thoth - Egyptian God of Wisdom
Join Date: August 16, 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 2,891
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I find that view awful, lunatic, and dangerous. I mean, since when are we "conscious of the supremacy of our civilisation"? That kind of thinking leads to VERY bad things - see WWII. This point of view: "I am better than you are" really annoys me. And what does Christianity have to do with it? There are Christian extremists, there are Muslim extremists, so what? Europe's "common roots" consist of warring, conquering each other and being conquered by each other over millenia. NOT the best basis for international trust. I also think it is %^(*&^%$ to say that Schroeder AGREES with him. I thought Schroeder was smarter than that.
------------------ Kazara Sapphire Dragoness of ALSB Waitress at Cloudy's Cafe Guardian of the Temple of Aerie (specialized in GenCon and BG) |
09-28-2001, 11:03 AM | #22 | |
Fzoul Chembryl
Join Date: March 29, 2001
Location: Montréal, Canada
Age: 49
Posts: 1,763
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The sad thing about this is that both civilisations (Occidental and Islamic) are equally commendable. However, you have idiots in BOTH camps that are unable to see the worth of this diversity and the true value of it. We (Occidental and Islam) are both right and wrong. We must fight side to side to cleanse the world of those idiots and learn to live respecting each others believes (that means that they should respect what we believe in and we should return the favor). ------------------ If I am because I think, then, if I talk without thinking, I'm not really talking! Am I? |
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09-28-2001, 11:11 AM | #23 | |
Fzoul Chembryl
Join Date: March 29, 2001
Location: Montréal, Canada
Age: 49
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We yell above all "human rights", "democracy" etc etc only if it serves our own interest. That's human nature. However, we fail to recognize that the other side of the coin is just a valid as ours. Saddly enough, humans, by nature, are unable to trully accept that someone doesn't believe as you do. ------------------ If I am because I think, then, if I talk without thinking, I'm not really talking! Am I? |
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09-28-2001, 11:42 AM | #24 | |
Fzoul Chembryl
Join Date: July 26, 2001
Location: Brighton, East Sussex, UK
Posts: 1,781
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Berlusconi is the richest man in Italy. Amongst his vast holdings are signficant stakes in both Italian television and newspaper publising. (He is Italy's Rupert Murdoch, its media mogul). How this man was allowed to run for office as Prime Minister I do not know. There is a huge conflict of interest here. I'm not surprised that he made the comments above. Berlusconi has a lot invested in some of the less appealing aspects of the western way of life. He's certainly made his money out of it (not particularly honestly, either). His Italian TV channels - they are the most banal, rubbishy shit. Tabloid TV with a vengeance. Virtual pap. When I lived in Italy, they were a hissing and a byword for anyone with even a small claim to a functioning brain. This link between terrorism and the anti-globalisation movement that he makes. (Well, big surprise that is, after his contribution to events in Genoa. Its totally in his interests to dis the anti-globalisation movement.). It's not the first time I've seen statements such as these, and it won't be the last. I was afraid this would happen. These tragic events are a great opportunity for politicians to go about firmly squashing the anti-globalisation movement by making associations that do not exist. The right wing media (i.e. the large majority of the media) are already enthusiastically backing politicians and big business by portraying the a.g. movement as incoherent, crazy groups of violent yobs and anarchists protesting mindlessly and violently when in fact this element (which does exist, unfortunately, in much the same way as football hooliganism) is but a small part of the whole, who are mostly just ordinary concerned citizens. ------------------ Ascended Mistress of Illumination OR Paws R Us |
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09-28-2001, 11:58 AM | #25 |
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Zbyszek:
[B] Officially he is right winged. I dont believe you can call somebody a fascist only because he calls for freedom of religion, voice and human rights, but maybe you call anybody fascist just because you dont agree with him - it is up to you I made the fascist remark because his comments bear such strong resemblance to the rantings of Mussolini. If Berlusconi's comments are supportive of "freedom of religion, voice and human rights", then I'm a stoat. And I do not call anyone who disagrees with me a fascist, only those who espouse fascistic viewpoints. Everyone else I call Nancy. ------------------ |
09-28-2001, 12:11 PM | #26 | |
Drizzt Do'Urden
Join Date: June 11, 2001
Location: Wherever the road takes me.....
Age: 53
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Silver Cheetah, are you refering to the Media in Europe as a whole, or Italy. Here in America the Media is left winged, and Liberal. How about we get everyone to let go of the emotion, and just report facts. Then, we the people can decide for ourselves. ------------------ |
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09-28-2001, 12:30 PM | #27 | |
Fzoul Chembryl
Join Date: March 29, 2001
Location: Montréal, Canada
Age: 49
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Also, let's not forget one the most important Western belief: no-effort, full gain. That's another reason why we don't want the media to just give us the facts. We want it all packadge, nicely wrapped, easy to open and gooble. Think of it as TV dinner for the brain ------------------ If I am because I think, then, if I talk without thinking, I'm not really talking! Am I? [This message has been edited by Ryanamur (edited 09-28-2001).] |
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09-28-2001, 12:35 PM | #28 | |
Fzoul Chembryl
Join Date: July 26, 2001
Location: Brighton, East Sussex, UK
Posts: 1,781
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Obviously, I am not in America right now, and cannot see all your papers. However, our own Guardian often reprints articles from various papers, including the Washington Post, the New York Times and so on. I didn't see much evidence of 'letting go of emotion'. (Not would I expect too, especially soon after the event happened. Emotion is natural. The British papers were emotional too. However, the more left wing liberal papers, such as the Guardian, and to a large degree The Independent are most interested in the causes of terrorism, rather than just being content to rah rah rah about what we're going to do to the terrorists, war on terrorism and so on. They do a great deal of intelligent reporting, including comment and analysis on those causes, which includes exploring the various Middle Eastern views. For example, The Guardian printed a 12 minute interview with Mullah Omar Mohammad, the Taliban Leader, which was conducted in Pashtu for the publicly funded radio channel Voice of America, which was pulled the previous Friday following objections from the US deputy secretary of state and senior officials of the National Security Council. Reading it, I wasn't quite sure why it had been pulled actually, but was most glad the Guardian saw fit to print it, as I like to get my information from as many sources as possible. In the same edition of the Guardian, we have an interview with the Pakistani journalist Rahimullah Yusufzai, who has met and interviewed bin Laden on several occassions, and who has tried to give us an insight into his mind. A reasoned and balanced attempt to get the other side of the story. Anyway, as I say, I only see some parts of the American newspapers, and so I cannot speak for them. I can only comment on what I have seen, which is to my mind no way left wing liberal! ------------------ Ascended Mistress of Illumination OR Paws R Us |
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09-28-2001, 12:42 PM | #29 | |
Fzoul Chembryl
Join Date: March 29, 2001
Location: Montréal, Canada
Age: 49
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On another note, I'm glad to see that from both side of the media spectrum, we can agree that there's no such thing as an unbiased report. ------------------ If I am because I think, then, if I talk without thinking, I'm not really talking! Am I? |
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09-28-2001, 01:10 PM | #30 | |
Fzoul Chembryl
Join Date: July 26, 2001
Location: Brighton, East Sussex, UK
Posts: 1,781
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BTW, just heard that Berlusconi has issued an apology for his comments. Somebody(ies) has obviously sat on his big fat head very hard indeed. ------------------ Ascended Mistress of Illumination OR Paws R Us |
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