I just happened to cross

[Yorick]

I'll weigh in with Epona here. I'm a bit of a student of Celtic history myself.

Arthur: a Celtic Warlord/Chieftan with Merlin or Myrddin? (Correct me on the spelling of his celtic name Ep) his Druidic Sage.

Thanks Donut



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FAIR DINKUM!

[Yorick]

Guys, this would probably be better in the GD forum yeah?

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FAIR DINKUM!

[250]

heh, but somehow, I read about King Arthur as a king of Britain who ruled in the beginning of the Dark Age. so enlighten me, and no, don't tell me he is just a warlord of some sort, of course he is. show me where your source of information is. thanks in advance

P.S. I am not good at European history, so if I make any mistake, do correct me

[Donut]

I agree that this should have been posted on the GD board but as 250 has invited correction if he is wrong I feel justified in putting my two pennorth in. I acknowledge that some of this information has already been posted by previous contributors.

Britain at the time of the dark ages was not a united country. It was split into various kingdoms each with it's own king. The battle of Mount Badon that you mention was in the 6th century and the first mention of Arthur was by the Welsh Monk Nennius in his 'History Brittanium' some 300 years later. It consisted of one line, in Latin. It is probable that Arthur was the leader of a warrior band left over from the Roman occupation who resisted the Saxons in Cornwall or Wales. His name was possibly Riothamus a man from Brittany in Gaul. I appreciate there are many other individuals that are believed to be the basis of the Arthurian legend. Over the centuries of constant telling and retelling the 'fact' has been embellished into the legendary hero that we now know.

There is no question of the Saxons being totally defeated and the Angles, Saxons and Jutes drove the native Britons into Wales, Scotland and the West Country. The word England is actually derived from the name of the 'Angles' tribe.

You are also slightly wrong on your Roman history of Britain. Julius Caesar invaded in 55BC and Britain paid financial tribute to Rome until it became a Roman province following the invasion of 43AD by the Emperor Claudius. I think the 'British King' that was captured was King Caractacus who was King of the Silurian tribe.

Just a couple of few other points:

The Dark Ages are so called because virtually nothing is known about the period. Robin Hood is also a legend based on a real person but he was just an outlaw. He robbed from the rich and the poor and he kept what he stole.

Richard I or the Lionheart as he is known , the great symbol of England Kings was French, he reigned for 10 years, during this time he spent less than 6 months in England and spoke very little English.

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The Truth is in the Profile

[Yorick]

Thanks Donut. Very interesting reading. Appreciative the effort, I am

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FAIR DINKUM!

[250]

hmm, that was a very nice history of yours, thanks. I know virtually little to nothing about Dark Ages, thank you very much. any website I can read about?

[Wookie]

Watch the film "Excalibur". Great re-telling of the Arthurian legend with plenty of Merlin appearances. Think I remember him casting a few spells using his staff during the movie.

[Lifetime]

A little word on Sword Legends.
The Sword in the Stone, which Arthur pulled out when he was a boy for his foster brother Kay was a symbol that Merlin set to determine the true King of England. It was he that had a vision of Arthur's golden reign and engineered these events. This sword had an inscription that said "whoever draws me is the true king of england" or something to that effect. Many nobles tried, but the only person capable of drawing the sword was the boy Arthur.
Arthur supposedly broke this sword whilst in battle (my source says a giant or something, but that is doubtful).
Excalibur and it's sheath were a parting gift from Merlin to Arthur.
Legend states that Merlin brought Arthur to an enchanted lake, and Arthur was given Excalibur by the Lady of the Lake.
Excalibur itself was made of the finest alloys, and could cut stone and steel without losing it's edge. It was it's scabbard however, that held the true power, for it was said to be able to protect the wearer from all bodily harm, that so long as the wearer had the scabbard, he would not, and could not die.

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Why?

[Epona]

Thanks all, interesting additions -

Donut, you're absolutely spot on, history genius, and put far more concisely than my rambling (just imagine me sitting in a darkened room, muttering to myself, I sometimes get so involved in the minutae of detail that I forget to include the bigger picture!!).

Yorick, I'm not sure about the correct spelling myself - the spelling of names often changes over time anyway!

Lifetime, that's another interesting theme - there is a lot of symbolism in old legends and art which we no longer know how to 'read'. We now live in a society which is largely literate and where information 'overload' is a part of every day life. In a society where people could not generally read or write, or where learning was limited to a small priesthood or elite, legend and art became much more than just interesting stories and pretty designs - they often have meanings woven into them that would hold as much information to the person hearing/viewing them as our daily newspaper gives to us!

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Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so.

[Lifetime]

Epona, I totally agree with you. It is true that when many newer versions of old classics or texts are read, there is always the feeling that it's lost something in the translation. Since many stories and legends were writen in now dead languages, or have changed much in the last few hundred years, many words or phrases that had multiple meanings and implications might have been translated into something with the same face meaning, but loses all subtlety and wit that it had. I guess thats the price you have to pay for understanding the big picture.
And about education, I guess thats how myths and legends come about..by word of mouth and gross exaggeration

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Why?