A racial conundrum...

[The Hierophant]

Well, here's a little gossip, but with a socially redeeming question attached.

At my workplace (the illustrious 'McCafe' section of the local McDonalds food outlet), there are a large number of employees, all from varying backgrounds. Now, while sitting in the staffroom on my lunchbreak today I was talking with this guy Chris. Y'know, just lunch-time chats with the workmates. Anyways, I looked at a headline in the paper about troop escalations in the middle east and made a comment along the lines of 'oh dear, looks like the shit is about to hit the fan'. Now, this naturally started off a conversation about the seemingly perpetual middle-eastern conflict, nearing the conclusion of which Chris stated word-for-word 'man, all of those Arabs are crazy anyway. We should just wipe them out and the world will be better off'.
Naturally I was a little taken aback by this, but I didn't let it show and merely stated 'well, you'd be surprised. Most everyday joe schmos in the Arab world are pretty much identical to joe schmos like us over here'. At which point he said 'yeah, but they're all hard-core religious over there. They strap bombs to themselves and kill innocent people'. Now, I tried to convince chris that it was only a small handful of people within the Arab population that engage in this sort of behaviour, but he didn't seem to getting the message. So I asked him about one of our workmates named Mohammed, an Arab immigrant from Jordan and practising Muslim who is without a doubt the nicest, friendliest most even-tempered worker on the roster (he was the first person at work to sit down and have friendly, lunch-time chats with me. We call him 'Mo' for short [img]smile.gif[/img] Whenever we're doing the night shift he gives me a ride home afterward and he always has a spare smoke if I need one [img]smile.gif[/img] ). Chris stated, 'yeah, Mo's cool. But he's over here. Over there they're all crazy'.
At this point I had already pointed out the evils of christian extremists such as white-power, the klu klux klan etc. So at seeing that this had made no effect and not wanting to delve deeper into just what difference 'here' and 'there' made, I kinda gave in to despair. Luckily, my lunch break was over so I just went back to work.

What I'm wondering is, how many of you have had similar such brushes with this sort of hateful prejudice? Chris himself is by no means a bad guy, he's another really friendly one on the roster. So naturally it kinda disturbed me to hear him advocating genocide against the middle-eastern peoples. Prejudice is rife it would seem, even in places you wouldn't expect to find it. How dangerous is this kind of thinking, that the actions of a few bely the character of the many, and justify the blanket-condemnation of an entire people? I myself have been guilty of such thinking in the past. Is it even possible to overcome prejudice? To make a conscious effort to see the person and not the stereotype?
Am I over-reacting? (yeah, probably).

Thoughts?

[ 02-23-2003, 12:59 AM: Message edited by: The Hierophant ]

[Bungleau]

It's easier to hate than to love. So it's easier for him to categorize all "those people" as being bad and rotten, and to whitewash the exceptions that he knows as being different -- over here instead of over there.

Unfortunately, you can't win an argument or discussion with someone like that. Point out to him that strapping a bomb on and blowing yourself up is not limited to the middle east, and he'll argue you're wrong, or, if you prove it to him, simply say, "that's different" and put it out of his mind.

Now, this next comment feels funny as I write it, and it's not meant to be elitist or anything like that. Which means, of course, it stands a good chance of being taken that way.

At a young age, it's very easy to follow the crowd and much more difficult to make your own path. It's much easier to jump on the bandwagon bashing middle easterners as homicidal maniacs, and very difficult to interrupt someone who's claiming they are to try to sway their opinion. For an un-tested debater, ignorant bluster can go a long way toward giving up an argument.

As one grows more experienced, one can stand toe-to-toe and point out the problems and fallacies with such a position. Unfortunately, someone who has already decided that all middle easterners are bad will generally be unwilling to take that decision back, so they will cling to it, no matter what sound information is presented back to them, no matter how much proof you have that they're wrong.

For someone like that, they have to come up with enough information on their own to form a new opinion about the topic. They won't change their old one; they'll form a new one. If you try to force them to change, they'll just work harder at keeping the old opinion in place.

For a lyrical thought on the topic, go back a few years to Sting's song "The Russians". Written during the tail end of the cold war, it asks the simple question: do the Russians love their children too?

So, have I seen it? Yep. Is it curable? Yep. One person at a time, one false belief at a time.

Is it easy? Nope. Hopefully, it will get easier as time goes on, but from my experience, meager though it is, the change in thought will start in the cities and move out to the rural areas.

Assuming, that is, that someone with an agenda like certain wannabe political religious figures doesn't jump into the whole mess by training a new flock of sheep.

That's what it actually comes down to, as I think of it -- being a sheep versus being a shepherd. I'd rather be a shepherd, even though every so often I fall into the sheep trap.

[The Hierophant]

Excellent reply Bungleau, thanks. You've obviously had plenty of experience with this sort of situation before It's good to hear that there may be light at the end of the tunnel afterall.
By the way, Chris and I didn't have a heated argument, we didn;t raise our voices or anything. We were just trading statements I suppose. Still, it was just a little worrying to hear someone as friendly as Chris say stuff like that. Sort've demonstrates how large-scale atrocities can be allowed to take place. The average joe just doesn't view them as being wrong within his or her own circumstances. Wierd.

[Iron_Ranger]

Well to say ALL Arabs in the middle east are dangerous religeous fanatics is wrong, of course. I think there are quite a few, maybe, but not all. There is alot of arabs here, I dont know any personally, but they all seem pretty nice, run into them alot at conveinent stores Hehe, ok that bad.

You know, in the earler 1900's the Irish were discmnated against in america, in the 40's Germans were, during the cold war Russians were, I wonder if this is just the next phase of people to get discmanated agaisnt and in few decades they will just become 'normal people' in everyones eyes.

[ 02-23-2003, 01:44 AM: Message edited by: Iron_Ranger ]

[Stratos]

Your friend Chris should perhaps take a vacation in the Middle East to get some perspective on things...

Seriously, personally I have a few co-workers from the Middle East and no one have strapped any bombs to themselves yet. Those fanatics that blow themselves up like that are VERY few but they usually end up on TV.
Besides, suicide-bombers are not something only Arabs can become, it´s a method of war (kamikaze anyone).

BTW you´re not over-reacting, ideas like Chris´ are actually quite dangerous if he really means it.

[Timber Loftis]

I think the vast majority of people are very quick to define "us" and "them" in their daily lives. This leads to inconsistencies in their views if you delve into the topic with them, but they don't self-analyze enough to realize they should be bothered by that in the least.

I know I'm being very general here, but I see it all the time too. And, we are all at least a little bit guilty of it from time to time. But, the open-mindedness prevalent in the majority of members on the IWF, IMO, just can't be found in the majority of folks you meet on the street.

I just think the "us" "them" dichotomies are a natural tendancy of the mind because it handles vast amounts of information through compartmentalization.

I had a similar experience at a hair salon the other day. By the time I left, the five or six people who'd become engaged in the conversation were simply asking me about things. Weird, I felt like they were seeking some Guru.

But, the one thing they all shared in common is the lack of understanding and knowledge regarding the historical facts in the region, even just dating back to 1990 (our discussion was more narrowly about Iraq).

It's interesting, I mention German weapons contracting for Iraq as a case-in-point to explain how everyone is self-interested and it immediately becomes "WOw, they suck and support terrorists." This was before I explained that it was simply companies in Germany doing what companies do - selling their wares. Of course Germany is interested in its companies doing well fiscally, but those actions were not exactly state-sponsored weapons transfers.

My point is NOT anything at all about Iraq or the Middle East. It is about people's willingness to take insufficient and/or inaccurate information and form an opinion that neatly defines everything as US and THEM. It's just the way so many folks are, and it takes effort to NOT do this.

On a related note, this is why irresponsible media and news coverages is so very damaging to society.

[/)eathKiller]

The daily news, unkowingly, can act as an anti-racial propaganda machine. If all of the every-day happenings around the world made headlines then the middle east would never even BE in the news, because dramatic things happen over there all we see are the dramatics, the every-day life is, for th emost part, ignored. And the ignorant, who only obtain informaation from the news, of course look onto it as the only truth.

There ya' have it...

[Animal]

I think we've all been touched by racial hate at one time or another, whether directed at us, or someone else and I think we've all shown those ugly colours ourselves, although maybe not intentionally.
Prejudice is everywhere these days, even though we may not recognize it. The police call it "racial profiling," in an effort to justify it. (Before I get jumped on, I am an ex-police officer)
It's tough to get past prejudice, especially since we've grown up with it and been surrounded by it all our lives, it becomes natural.

[Bardan the Slayer]

Originally posted by Animal: Prejudice is everywhere these days, even though we may not recognize it. The police call it "racial profiling," in an effort to justify it. (Before I get jumped on, I am an ex-police officer)

I have no problem with racial profiling. If there is a spate of bombings by people of middle-eastern appearance, i think it kinda makes sense to start pulling people of middle-eastern appearance out for random searches at airports, as opposed to a cross-section of white people, asian people, black people etc.

It's not racism, it's common sense. If there was a large group akin to the Ku Klux Klan espousing white supremacy and comitting crimes, then i would have no problem with being pulled aside for a random search (if such was within the law) based purely on my skin colour.

[ 02-23-2003, 09:27 PM: Message edited by: Bardan the Slayer ]