What do you guys and gals think about this?

I am a goil . . . a mom of three teens. I have enjoyed d&d role playing before Zelda came into being. I have DM'd for my family. Had to take a break when we embarked upon homeschooling. My husband has no patience for video games but enjoys d&d and we paint figurines, so he has begun enabling me by buying me some. My son intro'd me to M&M. Six okay, seven never finished - it was like a bad marriage . . . I enjoyed creating my characters, classes etc. (pygmalion or frankenstein) but as the game ground down I got tired of running thru endless mazes of medusas and behemoths. Combat system nice. My son blows thru without the aid of turnbase mode; I rely on it. Then, I played Krondor - not too bad but my attention wandered and my youngest begged and moaned til he was given custody of it. Next, Betrayal at Krondor; better but I hated the lack of character creation and the way certain characters would up and leave with your stuff. It didn't take long to play either. Now, W&W. WOW! (freud - nice system you have - I now have system envy - I want one!) Mine does good. Loading to new scenes gives me time to run to the restroom or rotate laundry - it runs slow, stutters a bit. Windows only kicked me out once. I save often; shutdown and defrag regularly. Yes, I too love the murderous windmill blades! I do wish the highland rogues would learn to count because they are the owns who are outnumbered. Animation is such that I must admit that on a few occasions, as I scuttle around the hallaways, going about my rat killing, I have personally been startled by the appearance of a wandering monster. This amuses my husband.

I am, at present, wearily and disgustedly wandering the over-built snake temple (should cure poison really be so high level a vine spell - I fear if I don't find my fourth monkey I will stay here until I learn achieve the level and learn it . . . eat your spinach, dear). I went to the net and discovered this ONE-derful site where I have learned the secret of the coin slot and six doors. PLEASE, let my monkey be there. I have 8 characters I rotate between - I WANT all the classes. One thing that irks me is I ready them by setting up spells or weapons,then I am in the habit of travelling in map mode so I can see where I am going. If I do this with my wizard who is set to zap and meet a baddie the game takes me from map mode to weapon mode (I had it set on magic) and by the time I realize it I've swiped thin air and they are upon me. So, I travel with someone else leading and switch quickly to a MU. A small complaint. I do miss positioning my characters in battle, to protect the puny pixie. I miss cues, but am catching on to the "logic" of the game. At Toad Ville I kept telling Ekbu I was Ekbu not Ukabu. Then, I hurt one by accident and no one would talk to me. Shinwiki did not reward me with a quest when I arrived in his presence. My family was quite amused by my protestations: "I am Ukabu" -kind of a Spartagus thing. LOVE THE AUTOMAP AND FLAGS! Hate not having access to all levels of the map. Must take my misgotten spoiler info and go play.

[freudianslip]

It's great to have you around, Lily! I too used to play AD&D quite a bit; DMing was my favorite part of the game.. I loved to roll dice randomly behind my little make-shift DM-screen, then frown and shake my head, whistling.. Then when my PCs looked at each other nervously, I'd say something like "Whew.. ok, now which one of you drank that potioin?"

As to the gold issue, I've found that it pays to only use the town for guilds and stuff; get your equipment out in the wild. After clearing the entire Crypt, I came home with about $3,500 (This is after selling everything I didn't want.) The best advice is to pick up everything; I never keep any potions except for yellow (cure poison).. they bring in at least $25 a pop. Also, sell all of your scrolls; they are practically useless, as one shot deals, but some can net you $250 a smack! Half the price of a guild admission.

Though a lot of people yell and scream about the gold, I find it does add an interesting element; think about it, in how many CRPGs have you played were you carrying around $50,000-$150,000 by halfway through the adventure? Almost all of the ones I've played. But here, with Wizards & Warriors, it forces you to really consider every little expenditure, no matter how small.

Also, wasn't the original name "Come Devils, Come Darkness"? That's a lot better name than the very dorky sounding "Wizards & Warriors." Hmm..

I've been gaming for 10 years; Wizardry was the first roleplaying I played... I loved M&M 6 but found 7 trying. I would like to play more...but without blood and guts and it needs to be TURNED based...Any suggestions? I'm glad to see other women on the board. Any comments about the T and A in this game?..Any one use the Chain bra armor? For my money I would like to see some codpieces...and thighs..some very muscular thighs..(sigh)

Just a quick question, is there a good way to make money without cheating? I mean, i haven't used any of the spoiler info yet, but the lack of money to allow me to join guilds is silly (500 friggen crowns a piece, so 3000 crowns, as much as an uncurse. ack! ) PS, about uncurses, id everything first, even though it costs $ it's alot less then an uncurse.

[Kate]

I'm a girl too...(you might possibly guess from the name!) have been playing RPGs for years starting with D&D (graph paper and painted figures) back in the late '70's. Must say I used to think there was a lack of females in the hobby but there are rather more these days.
Started playing computer games with the old "text only" adventures in the early '80's (microcomputers), you youngsters just can't imagine what it was like!
Interesting to see the M&M comments...I too finished M&M 6, never finished M&M 7 and got sidetracked from 8 by Icewind Dale, Balders Gate II, Diablo II and W&W...
In fact there are so many RPGs around these days that I rarely finish one before I go on to the next. (But I do get a lot of fun from them). Mind you I finished Return to Krondor, it was way to short and too easy. I usually find all these games hard.
I also jump out of my skin sometimes when I am startled by random monsters, my fella thinks it's hilarious!
One thing that has always struck me about RPGs is why are the men always dressed up to their eyes (and ankles) in heavy armour, and the gals get a brass bra or loincloth? Very sexist... I think the idea about codpieces and thighs (male thighs anyway) is cool!
Someone mentioned "Clash of the Titans"...very funny film. Not sure if the humour is intentional or not, but it made me laugh, I always thought it was a good film for gamers.
For me combat at least *has* to be turn-based, I just can't think or act fast enough else. I get a bit p*ssed off with W&W in that respect as it isn't really turn based, M&M system is better. I get most peeved when I am trying to "level up" a character, and you can't get out of it until you have finised and some monster appears and takes pot shots at you.
And it is so annoying when your magic user waves his staff at empty air, isn't it! just as annoying as wasting a spell on some small creature when you really meant to just hit it.
My other half doesn't like the way the dead bodies vanish, he likes to leave a trail of dead bodies so he can navigate his way back by them!
But is is quite amusing when the butterflies fly into the mill...
This is really a nice game once they get the bugs fixed.

[freudianslip]

Wow, the women are starting to come out of the woodwork now! Say, do any of you lovely ladies happen to be free tonight? Hehehe..

Anyway, I completely agree about the sexism inherent in a lot of these games. Not only that, but it implies a bit of stupidity on the part of the in-game females, that they would be dumb enough to go into battle wearing only a metal bra and a bracelet. So, both ways, it comes off as offensive. Look at the cover of the manual, for example; there is the angelic figure, rising above the ground, her perky honeydews swelling against the constraint of the fabric, as if straining to be free from their covering. and the.. and.. uh..... *shakes head* sorry, became distracted there. Seriously it does seem a bit goofy. But, at least the guy in the picture is equally inapproriately deressed.. and I seriously hope those are fur underbreeches that gentleman is wearing and not an obvious neglect for the trimming of pubic hair!

But, I suppose, friends and neighbors, that it comes down to the almighty dollar. Whatever the case, the primary demographic for this type of game is your late-teen to mid twenties male, probably single. What better away to attract the eye of your typical male than a bountiful bosom heaving off of the cover? Sad, but true.

Whatever the case, it's good to see some female representation on the forum. Welcome! (Though you've probably been here longer than I, as I just got the game on Thursday.)

Strangely, I enjoyed MM6, and MM8, but found that MM7 bogged down a bit, even though it was probably the most interesting and the most complex. I beat 6 & 8 but never managed to finish 7. Some other RPGs that I enjoyed thoroughly:

Master of Magic (more RP-TBS, but still excellent)
Disciples of Steel
Pool of Radiance, Curse of the Azure Bonds, et. al..
Ultima 4, 5, 6 .. and 9 is worth a look, even though it is hated far and wide. It's still interesting, if you can run it!
System Shock 2 (more of a FPS with RPG elements, but WOW.. this game is absolutely amazing.)
Fallout 1 & 2 (my favorite games of all time.. if you've never played these, do so soon! You will not regret it.)
Wasteland (sort of Fallout's spiritual predecessor)
Bard's tale (Mainly just hack & slash, but fun for a while)
Dragon Wars (good, unique "stun" system, great skills system, turn based combat, and very underrated.. old, mine is on 5 1/4" hehe)
Dues Ex (again, more FPS than RPG, but still quite fun.. not in the same league as SS2, but still a blast. I'm playing through it right now!)

Hi, just thought I'd throw my two cents in. W&W is graphically better than M&M 6-8 (though 9 is to have a totally new 3d Engine with better hardware support and overall better appearance *rubs hands together and grins*)but the playablity is severly lacking in some critical areas. My major gripe is the combat system, clunky, too many on screen options and not enough keyboard shortcuts (the A & S key bindings for weapon or spell in M&M were very useful!) the fact that it takes way too much just to manuever the cursor over a dropped item (Staffs and Knives are the worst). And the lack of real and effective turnbased mode really is annoying, however I will say this it does add to the realism, I mean c'mon in real combat you cant exactly stop, raise your hand and call out: "Ok Wait a second me first with my Flamestrike, then you can attack with your sword!"

As it is personally I think W&W should have had at least another 6 months of development and testing to smooth things out, unfortunately I think activision wanted a pre-Day After Thanksgiving release to cover costs (Four Years of Devel. for this must have cost a pretty penny.) I can see where all that time was given over to the interactivity of the game world and the game story but the technical aspect must have gone through a few last minute changes especially if they changed the engine halfway through(?) to update it. Within the first twenty minutes of playing I was ready to return this game to the store I felt it sucked so bad, but then I found some walkthroughs on the web, started over (this time I didnt join a guild right off and was able to journey with non-half naked charachters.) Basically this game grew on me as I realized that even with its shortcomings it was a fun game.

On another note (*audience groans*), being one of those Males 18 - 25 (Myself I'm 25), though not single, I do agree that games do have a tendency to have too many loin-cloth-wearing/microbra-clad females on the cover to sell them, personally I can't say as I don't enjoy it, I'm male after all, but its an obvious marketing ploy (NOTE: try Using the element of evil you get from Lysandra in Shurugeon Castle on her, it had my girlfriend laughing out loud the reaction you get gods know it was a male who wrote that bit of code.) designed to reach a target audience. This is mainly the reason I stopped buying comic books (most, exceptions: Sandman/Hellblazer/Shade) as 99 out of a 100 of them on the shelves had a busty woman on the cover wearing as little as the comics code would allow without an adult rating. I admit to buying a few but and after the hormones wore off, I still knew that the woman on the cover was not an accurate representation of women, and had learned that neither was the cover an indication of a good story on the inside.

Well Ive managed to ramble on and most who are reading this either stopped and went back to W&W or fell asleep on their keyboards, so if you managed to get this far, thank you! NOW GO BACK AND PLAY W&W ALREADY!!

Have fun adventurin' and raise one for me in the tavern!
Raven

[Wyvern]

Babes in skimpy costumes - that seems to be a standard for CRPGs (I think it goes along with the efforts to provide beautiful scenery or some such thing). That really never bothered me very much. What did tick me off was the BISC (babes in skimpy costumes) monsters. It was as though all game designers (are they all really dateless geeks?) perceived all beautiful women as evil. At least in W&W we get the Boogres Hag to counter that long held tradition!

Wyv

Where does one get a Dior leather bra +8?? (and how well do they fit?)

At the risk of sounding off about a subject and getting flamed, I really wouldn't mind a game where all characters are scantily dressed, male or female, or fully dressed, either way a balance. Being male but also an artist Ive never been truly bothered by looking at the semi or, in all honesty, even fully-nude male body, (a friend once labled it Bi-Sensual) but I think that the games reflect those developing them - mainly the same demigraphic as those who the ads are targeted at - males 18-25 usually with fully engaged hormones. If you think about it it makes sense (not saying its good mind you) which would you rather look at when your working on something day in and day out (and don't forget to the people developing these games this is more work than play) something that makes you excited (mean that in the happy way not oh you know what I mean!) or something that makes you uncomfortable? I do see it as sexist but more in a sub-conscious way as opposed to someone actually trying to degrade women. Thats my ok four cents now. Meanwhile back at the farm...

Raven

[freudianslip]

I think it would be great to see a CRPG with fat, ugly men and women on a quest to save the world It's kind of similar to the way I feel about music; I couldn't care less about how they look, I care about how they sound! That's why I have a "200 pound Mama Cass" poster on my wall and not a 110 pounds Mariah Carey or Gwen Stefani or Spice Girl poster on the wall. (Not that the poster weighs that much, but you know what I mean.)

Think about it: If Lara Croft had been a pudgy, middle aged, flat chested woman, would the series have sold as well? heh, probably not.