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Old 08-02-2002, 10:13 AM   #1
fung
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Join Date: June 22, 2002
Location: Australia
Age: 41
Posts: 77
Eventhough Wiz 8 is quite a complex game in terms of character development, there are not many websites which contain detailed guides for character building. Jandrall's website www.geocities.com/jandrall is good, but with all due respect, I think that AtlasSeven's guides have too much emphasis on speed and not enough on vitality. Speed can easily be obtained via haste, and low vit means that it is hard to last on expert ironman.

Hence the idea of this post is for everyone to post their favourite character and some tips as to how to build that character effectively...also his/her role in the party.

My favourite character: The Faerie Ninja

Role in party:
The farie ninja uses Cane of Corpse and is deadly as a close range combantant. As the Cane is cursed, he relies on spells for ranged attacks.

Game plan:
The faerie ninja starts off weak and it is recomended that u dual wield farie sticks to practice his close combat, wand skill and dual wielding. He will be pretty lame until u manage to get the CoC. This can probably be achieved by level 11-12.

Cane of Corpse: Dmg 12-42, paralyse 50%, poison 100%, kill 15%, 50% resistance to divine.

The damage of CoC is great, on par with Light**sword. But a fighter berserking with *light**sword will beat the CoC in pure damage, CoC shines in its ability to inflict ailments tho.

Rod of sprites is the best offhand weapon (6-18dmg hex 50%), but available rather late. Winterwand can be obtained early at Mountain Wilderness and it is useful thoughout the game.

Winterwand: dmg 4-8, paralyse 15%.

I love using winterwand with CoC. Altho, the pure damage is not as good as a fighter (beserking with a good sword and DE), your ninja most likely paralyse any monster in any one round, from several swings of CoC (50%) and winterwand (15%). Not to mention the poison. In addition, a faerie ninja with max. critical strike and CoC has the highest potential instant kill % in the game.

Spellcasting:
since the CoC is cursed, spellcasting is your best way to participate in ranged combat, as opposed to doing nothing. I suggest focusing on 3 realms only (unless u like to practice ALOT). The best realms for alchemist are respectively Earth, Air and Fire. All 3 realms can be practiced outside combat Light(fire), Portals(air), Knock Knock, chameleon (earth). The earth realm is the most powerful (earthquake) and easiert to practice with knock knock in arnika jail. 3 realms should be sufficient to handle monster resistances, remember that u are not a full-time caster. Tsunami (water realm) is great, but that is the only good offensive water spell in the alchemist book, and the water realm is also hard to practice outside combat for alchem.

Attribute allocation:
Since the Faerie ninja will not be your haste caster, spd is relevantly unimportant. Focus on Str/dex and u will unlock Power strike and relextion as soon as possible. Powerstrike will help u deal dmg, but goes up quickly by its own without any investment (think of it as a free bonus). Reflextion is great for ninja as he/she has relatively low hps for a front line fighter and hence is worth investment. After str/dex I would go Vit/senses (I believe that u may finish the game b4 u max either senses or vit). Vit for hps and stamina, senses for combat bonuses and initiative. Spd is not useful since with 60 starting spd, u will easily reach 125 after haste casting. The faerie ninja has a starting Intelligence of 55 (60 after tryton fountain), it is sufficiently high for spell learning and skill learning IMHO.

Sill point allocation:
When you dual wied wands, the following combat skills are listed in order of importance. 1)Wand skill, 2)Dual weapons, 3)Close combat. Since the wand skill goes up quickly with use, I'd go for the dual weapon skill first.

Stealth is also important as is Alchemy and Critical strike. Stealth for defence, alchemy for casting and critical strike for extra melee poweress...the choice is yours. I would not invest in the magic realms as they go up quickly with use...pp or lock and trap is best left to someone else. the CoC ninja has quite a lot of skills to develop...

i.e. Wand skill, close combat, dual weapons, stealth, critical strike, alchemy, reflextion, possibly powerstrike. As you can see, you probably wouldn't max all of them, just choose some and get them to sufficiently high levels.
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Old 08-02-2002, 03:50 PM   #2
otter
Elminster
 

Join Date: March 26, 2002
Location: portland or
Posts: 434
The Classes i choose and how i develop then depend mostly on the size of the party. I haven't played a full 6 since my 4th finish, and i've never used RPC's, so most of my development experience has been with chars who have more XP available and develop into higher levels than in 'full' parties.
Almost all my successful parties with fewer than 5 chars have had a Mook Bard dual-class to either Fighter or Samurai, with one level as Rogue for Stealth, and switching at L10.
This is the char i use for Haste, and as soon as i qualify for the R.Drums, i switch. I have run Bards all the way through, they don't come anywhere near the destructive power of a Fighter or Sam. This char is also the L&T and PP person, i use practise time to max both Music and L&T before i switch.
They get 3 Spd and 2 Dex per level, maxing them at L18; the other point goes in Vit to 75. Then they get 3 Str, 2 Sen, and more Vit, or maybe Pie for the Sam, because Pie builds both Stamina and SP.
I like to max Dex as soon as otherwise possible; if everyone has Stealth and Reflx, they're almost impossible to hit.
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Old 08-02-2002, 06:06 PM   #3
armakh
Manshoon
 

Join Date: February 24, 2002
Location: Sidney, Nebraska
Posts: 198
I'm by no means an expert, but I've played most of the classes at least once all the way through, and my favorite has been my gadgeteer. I picked a gnome for rp purposes, though I think that many here would favor the hobbit. The gadgeteer is a slow-developing class, but by the end of the game, she can be a real powerhouse, and she doesn't take much developing, which is good for those who either get bored or refuse to "powertrain" their characters. The finished gadgets take a while to become very useful, but by the time you get to Martin's Bluff and can put the porta-potty together, or even Trynton to get the Lava Lamp, she will become very useful.

I think that dex, str, and vit are very important for the gadgeteer. The dex will help your engineering skill go up, and assists with locks and traps, and will make you better with your omnigun. Vitality is good for both hp and especially stamina, and str is doubly important because the gadgets get heavy, and once again for stamina, which is the true lifeblood of your effective gadgeteer. This is also why you should make your gadgie a female-the stamina regeneration items are very important for her. Int will make your engineering skill improve faster and help you fumble your gadgets less, so it can also be a very good skill to work on.

Weaponswise, your gadgeteer comes with all she needs-the omnigun. Damage-wise, the omnigun is all about what bullets you use, so stay away from the regular stuff, and stock up on impaling and medusa stones when you can. However, in the early game, especially, the omnigun is pretty weak, so focus on building engineering skills with the lightning rod, porta-potty, and lava lamp. I personally don't like the jack-in-the box except in emergencies because I'd rather kill stuff than have it run away. By the end of the game, though, your omnigun is a very potent weapon for all of the maladies that it can inflict, especially with medusa stones loaded. Blind, kill, ko are the best ones, imho. A trick that you can use to keep from running out of ammo is to load ammo into both secondary slots; you will reload even in the middle of a "swing" and it saves you having to keep track of it as often.

Gadgets are awesome, and whenever I don't have one, I really miss them. Early on the lightning rod does pretty good damage and really helps build that engineering skill. The porta-potty is wonderful, and should be your staple for a long time. The x-ray scanner can really save on that mental realm mana for your bishop, allowing more room for spells like ego whip and insanity. In addition, the gadgie can "cast" superman, detect secrets, asphyxiation (my personal favorite), tsunami, boiling blood, heal all, and earthquake (I'm prolly forgetting some). In addition, with an engineering skill of 70, you can make tripleshot crossbows.

I also use my gadgie for locks and traps, as there aren't that many skills you need to build. Engineering is of primary importance, and modern weapon and ranged combat need to be up by the time that your omnigun becomes really useful. Don't bother with powerstrike or powercast-they have absolutely no effect on the gadgeteer. Although some may disagree, you don't need to build up any weapon skill other than modern weapons, and no modern weapon will be more useful to you than your omnigun.

If you're patient enough to see them through, a gadgeteer may become one of your best utility characters. They are a pretty easy class that just amazed me by the end of the game.
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Old 08-02-2002, 07:31 PM   #4
Twisted Brother
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Join Date: July 21, 2002
Location: WasteLands
Age: 49
Posts: 22
My favourite char is human/ninja, who became a fighter at 20th level. He was a killing machine with light sword, ivory plate and protective enchants.
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Old 08-02-2002, 10:25 PM   #5
Gimli
Emerald Dragon
 

Join Date: January 12, 2002
Location: Moria
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I like the Faerie Ninja as well, think the profile posted is a very good one. I would usually also build his Divine realm (pretty easy to do if you get him heal wounds). It's great later on to have him be able to summon elementals out of that realm. I found myself doing that alot in the underwater areas where fire magic doesn't work to beef up my group because I'd be missing haste, but it is a great spell in general for tougher fights.

But I think my favorite was a female mook bard-to-fighter I had, she was just amazing all around, used bloodlust early on as a bard, then a GS, and had music to round things out, extremely useful character. She lead the group in kills, was just a beast with bloodlust and being hasted all the time =0)

Also I think Jandrall's site is pretty outdated, he basically took threads from the Vault Networks wiz board from a ways back and posted them there, that was where Altus used to post his spotlights. Altus did have a subsequent thread about haste I believe and changed his ideas on alot of the classes. It's good that this board is here to steer people from following those old threads too literally and ending up recreating their party when they realize it could be done differently and maybe more effectively.

Right now I am still obsessed with NeverWinter Nights [img]smile.gif[/img] There I am working on an "assassin" type who is mostly Rogue, with a dab of Ranger and Fighter worked in, he's going around with a death-obsessed dwarven monk doing quite well When any of you finally get burnt from Wizardry I think you'd have fun with NWN as well, definitely reccomend it.
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Old 08-03-2002, 01:32 AM   #6
Oruboris
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Join Date: April 5, 2002
Location: SW Montana
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Honestly, the only reason I'm still playing is to attempt to build the perfect bishop.

Not an expert on how the math works, but here are a few observations.

Regardless of race, all bishops start with relatively low hit points, and limited access to armor. Its wise to invest some early points in vitality [I do 2 per level for at least the first 5 levels], as the starting stats in pie, int, dex and sen will more than carry you that far.

Very important to know what weapons you'll want to weild in the endgame, and aquire something of the same class as early as possible. There are no skill points to spare for weapons, so the sooner they start swinging them,the better. Slings are really the only ranged attack weapons for casters, and there are at least 2 in the lower monestary area.

I also do most of the lower monestary before facing the crabs on the beach or in the gazebo: with a couple of levels under a bishop's belt, he will do far better against these critters that seem to enjoy whacking your second row characters.

Am personally a little dubious about assigning other attribute points: with a recent hobbit bishop, he got his level 7 spells for both wizardry and psionics at the same time, despite having 100 int and very low sen. I have noticed that with 2 [nearly] identical bishops casting the same spell at the same power level,the one with higher power cast will almost invariably do more damage. Since maxing sen only gets you 'Eagle Eye', honestly don't think its worth investing many points in it. Since I like the iron will and reflextion skills, I also work on piety and dexterity, even for a bishop not using much from the divinity or alchemy realm.

I assign a bishop 2 'primary' books that each receive 3 skill points per level, and generally split the remaining 3 points between the other 2 books. While pumping realm skills early will develope a bishop faster, he'll be less effective by midgame. I no longer invest ANY points in the realms: practice, even if you don't 'train' per se, will keep those rising on their own. Ditto power cast, etc: if there isn't anywhere else useful to put skill points, fine, but until all the schools have passed 75, doesn't seem worthwhile. Adding a point or two to the secondary schools will give access to many worthwhile spells that would otherwise be unavailable. Casting a psi spell with a div/alch bishop [random example] when you know the combat is going to be pretty minor is also a great way of increasing the secondary schools. If you don't follow such a strategy from pretty early on, your odds of getting the level 7 spells in all 4 schools is very low, unless you are playing with less than 4 characters.

Cast as many spells as possible, even if that means napping a bit in the first part of the game. Once they have buffs like enchanted blade available, try and keep them running all the time, even if the mana cost is a little hard to take. Be aware of what spells come from which realms, and use spells from your 'weak' realms when the situation allows.

It really is worth it to save some spell picks: since most level 4 and lower spells are available for sale, saving a few picks to use at the level 7 breakthrough is worthwhile. It makes your bishop a little less effective in early going, but gives them great power in later stages of the game when the enemies are tough and travel in VERY large groups. Awfully sad to waste a pick on a spell that you could have learned for a tiny price or found for free just a little later.

Make sure one bishop puts a point or 2 in alchemy every round, and train by mixing potions. Bishops need money for books, and a bish that can make good potions is a walking ATM: can easily generate enough cash to keep himself and all other characters outfitted with the latest and greatest.

Personally, I no longer dual class bishops: in the hobbit party, one bishop spent her first 4 levels as a rogue [for locks and traps], and she really never caught up with her counterpart.

Oru
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Old 08-03-2002, 11:05 AM   #7
VVhistler
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Ninja build was rooked??
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Old 08-03-2002, 12:14 PM   #8
Gimli
Emerald Dragon
 

Join Date: January 12, 2002
Location: Moria
Posts: 912
There's no perfect formula for a Bishop, depends on the party they're in really in terms of what they need. The "best" ones I had were a pair of bishops, one was a Felpurr who maxed speed and int, then went with senses and dex. He maxed the Psionic and Alchemist realms, and after he could cast level 7 spells in each switched over to be a pure Alchemist. He was the designated "haste" character in my group, so the speed and senses together really helped him get that great spell off first. The other one was an Elf who went for Int/Pie and then Dex/Vit. He maxed Divinity and Wizardry and went to being a pure Mage post-level 7 spells. It was nice to switch them to get the +25 to their main realms. And I found just working on 2 books early made life alot easier and made training less needed.

Personally I think Vit shouldn't be raised first, if at all - even with a high Vit Bishops just have poor HP. What is useful is if you can spare some points later on for the Shield skill, but really use protective spells, good formations, elementals, etc to keep them protected from melee. I think Int is a must for powercast and should always be maxed first; dex is also great to get reflexion and help AC. Pie is nice if you're going to work on Divinity, otherwise I think it's overrated because there are so many ways to get mana back that I don't think alot of extra mana is necessary, especially for a bishop who builds it up by learning so many spells.

I liked going with a bullwhip and shield for my bishops (one reason I don't like faeries, can't use shields and alot of other armor allowed to bishops), this way you get an extended range melee weapon (seeing as you'll be in the back) and the shield. The cat o' nine tails and vampire chain become the eventual weapons I use, and you can get bullwhips as early as the Monastery to start with. But really if you're using melee or ranged weapons alot with your Bishop you're not using him right, he should be casting almost every round you're in combat which will really help raise his magic skills.

I also had a faerie bishop who maxed all four books, stayed a pure bishop throughout the game, and for the party he was in he was really useful as he was the only pure caster, so it all depends. But from my experience, taking two bishops and going for 2 books each works out very well.
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Old 08-03-2002, 06:23 PM   #9
otter
Elminster
 

Join Date: March 26, 2002
Location: portland or
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Another variable on the Bishop is your patience (or ideology) with practising. I used to leave Arnika for the first time with all four Schools and Earth and Mental Realms maxxed. This operation can take only a few hours of 'game' time if you have a Mana stone, and if you can't PP He'li for one, then you can come back later when you have one, or camp a lot for Mana regen. If you're also going to mix potions for half-a-mil or so, you'll be camping anyway, for the Merchants to restock, so the Stone is mostly if you can PP, bkuz you can PP enough Flash and Sneezes to obviate buying potions to mix.
Anyway, i build the schools so Alchemy is first to get to 15, so i can mix at Burz already. I take NO spell picks. I read all the Spellbooks, which cover all the L1-5 except Holy Water, unless you PP. That way, you have only to L24 to learn every spell in the game.
My Attribute development is: Int3, Dex2, Vit1. I like all my chars to get Reflx, since that and Stealth make them almost impossible to hit. Once i max Int, i go to Dex3, Vit2, Str1 until Dex maxxes, then Vit2, Str2, Pie2. All three build stamina, and the Staff works SO much better with higher Str!
Developing the Schools to 100 right away involves Knock-Knocking Alc up to 50, then mixing for a while, going back to max with K-K. This will also advance your Earth Skill a lot. I use the Mana Stone instead of camping mostly to avoid constantly respawning the mobs outside, but it has the added advantage of increasing the user's Artifacts Skill. For Wiz, i take a level off as a Mage & cast a lot more K-K's. For Div, Charm. Make sure Div stays ahead of Psi! For Psi, Mindread. These last 2 have the advantage that you can cast them on people who'll recharge the Stone for you, so you can do it in less than a 'game' hour.
Anyway, i haven't done this since my 3rd Bishop; i've found you don't really need to max. Now i just go down to do K-K and camp my Mana back up while waiting for the Merchants to restock their Potions for me to mix, and i only do that until i have the price for all the stuff i want at Bela's. Usually around 75 Alc, 60 Div, and 100 Psi, just because Mindread takes so many SP's.
The point is, really, you don't have to specialize if you have a little patience.
You can boost your other Realms by casting all the Buffs, only Water has a really poor selection of developers--i always make sure i use up my water every battle, that's about the only way. Any buff cast while the same is still in effect won't count toward Skill increases. Hypnolure is great, you just have to be near a merchant, cast it again as soon as it fades, you get a lot of Fire fast. Portal, if you haven't maxxed anything yet, will max whatever School is highest, and Air, really fast. If you've got a lagging School, spend a level as its 'pure' Caster.
My current Party of Two has a Bishop/Lord: first 4 lavels as Lord, L5 Rogue for Stealth, (only 2283 rounds vs 7 Seekers to max both chars' Stealth, one got 87 Shield, the other 92. While i went shopping.) and now in Arnika, have 2 Bishop levels, waiting for L3 to read some Books...I plan to go 8 Bishop levels, to read all the Spellbooks up to L4, then switch back to Lord, continue just the Divine School, wear some really cool stuff, and Maul everything i don't DE! The other half is a Bard/Samurai (Mook).

[ 08-03-2002, 06:29 PM: Message edited by: otter ]
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Old 08-03-2002, 08:42 PM   #10
Gimli
Emerald Dragon
 

Join Date: January 12, 2002
Location: Moria
Posts: 912
As a matter of taste I don't mind training so much, but I do think it's a little silly to be able to get to 100 in a skill at a low level by doing the same thing over and over for say an hour. The more I think of it it's kind of a shame that this game encourages that - I wish there had been less emphasis on repetition as the means to raise skills and more on leveling. It somehow seems like better, purer roleplaying that way. I'm sure alot of you here have been pen and paper, D+D gamers in the past. Can you imagine telling the DM the same thing over and over for 2 hours to max out a skill? But if you are going for power builds then training is the best option in Wizardry, but in a way it encourages bad roleplaying that way. Even with melee, the same thing, would you really want to keep a foe alive for an hour by healing it for example to keep taking swings at it? Would a couple hundred swings at the same thing really max out skill in a certain weapon? But those are the rules, I'm not going to judge but I am enjoying NWN (which albeit has some different possible experience exploits) where your mastery comes through time and levels only.
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