Good for nothing mages!

[Calsiumus]

Ahhh I hate mages!!
no affence to you "mages lovvers" but I hate mages I mean when you are a mage yourself you suck big time but when you fight a mage they ´kick ass!!...
Arghh...

[Calsiumus]

I know I put this topic in other froums I just want to tell evry one how much i disslike them!!!

[andrewas]

Multiple forum posting isnt exactly popular here.

Especialy when that post is just plain wrong. I replied in SoA.

[Lord Brass]

Well, as I'm not on the SoA board (and not likely to be for some time) I might as well reply.

The reason behind the difference is gameplay. If you compare what happens to your mage with what happens to the NPC, you will see why the NPC has to be biased towards. A well executed plan on the part of the "PCs", would kill off any mage before they could get a spell flying. It might make it smoother for you, but it isn't any fun. That's why the enemy mages have a casting time of 0 or 1 (so it appears to be) for spells that are defensive in nature: protection from normal missiles, dimension door etc.

Used properly, they'll save your behind every time.

[ 10-05-2002, 08:50 PM: Message edited by: Lord Brass ]

[andrewas]

Lord brass, the zero casting time is because all the enemy mages use spell triggers, contingencies and spell triggers. Its the only way the designers could give them a fighting chance.

The same strategies are available to you, but harder to use because you have to fight multiple encounters every day instead of the one the enemy gets to fight.

Aside from Irenicus II(Who wears the RoV) all mages have the proper casting times.

[NobleNick]

Originally posted by Calsiumus: Ahhh I hate mages!! no affence to you "mages lovvers" but I hate mages I mean when you are a mage yourself you suck big time but when you fight a mage they ´kick ass!!... Arghh...

Calsiumus,

I hate coming up against enemy mages, too -- hate it, Hate it, HATE it! But that is exactly the reason that I am building a magic-heavy party.

I disagree with the "your mage sucks" part of your message. I think you are doing something wrong. My guess is that your problem is not with the offensive power of the mage (heh, heh, bet you've already been on the receiving end of that!); but with the defensive vulnerability of the character: they are low on hp and get killed before you can fully exploit their offensive power.

I have five suggestions that would help for your IWD journeys.

The first two are, far and away, the most important: 1.) Most important --> Dual class from fighter, to get BIG TIME booster on hitpoints; and 2.) Second most important (but most important to maximize offensive power) --> SPECIALIZE! (The loss of the ability to get spells from the opposing school, when you specialize, is a VERY small pittance to pay in order to gain the extra spell slot per spell level. And you can nullify even that pittance by having two specialist mages in different, correctly chosen, schools.)

The last 3 suggestions can also have a significant positive impact on your character's viability: 3.) max out intelligence, during character build, to get the ability to write more spells per level (gives you wider selection of spells from which to memorize) and has other benefits; 4.) Max out constitution during character build, to get more hp per level; and 5.) Check the "max hitpoints per level" button in your options menu, again, to maximize hitpoints.

I am building a "two-and-a-half" mage party (all specialists). My fighters (the "two") have not yet dualed over to mage (waiting until about fighter level 9). Therefore, the only magic user (so far) is Sashii, my gnome Thief/Illusionist (the "half"); and she is THE pivotal character in the party! All my exploring tactics revolve around her thief abilities; and virtually all my combat strategy AND tactics revolve around her mage abilities. Even though she is only a multi-class Illusionist, Sashii easily gets her share of the kills; and I haved lost count of how many times she has saved the party's bacon.

If I didn't have so many characters proficient in ranged weapons, the strategy would be even more "Sashii-centric." It would go something like this: "Everyone except bard and Sashii: Protect Sashii. Bard: sing! Sashii: KILL!!" A very powerful character: THE most powerful. Makes me sweat to think of adventuring without this chick. If I had to go through and remove characters from the party, one at a time, to form successively smaller paries, she would be the last one eliminated. And if it came down to a one-character party: I would rather solo with her than any other character.

A-a-a-an-nd..... I can hardly wait until my selected fighters have about 130 hitpoints, each, and dual over to specialist Sorceror and specialist Conjuror: Wha-a-A-A-A-A-A-A HO-O-O-O-OOOO!!!!

Party On!

edited for spelling an clarity, and to get quoted message to not mess up my "signature" font color.

[ 10-06-2002, 03:01 PM: Message edited by: NobleNick ]

[Dundee Slaytern]

You are allowed to dual to a Specialist Mage in IWD? I was under the impression that you can only dual to a General Mage.

PS: There are no Sorcerers in IWD.

PS PS: I never had problems with my pure Mages dying in combat. If they are getting hurt, it is because everybody else is dead already and it is time to reload. Mages should always be placed far behind the party, staying only within casting distance.

[NobleNick]

O.K., O.K., Dundee! You know (from another thread) that I am presently at a loss, without my IWD and HoW manuals. On top of that, I have played a lot of Diablo 2 in the last few months (including as a Necromancer, Druid and Sorceress); so my brain has turned to jelly.

However, I believe that you can dual a specialist mage; just not multiclass one. (Oh Boy! I SURE hope it's not the other way around! IIRC, the only specialist mage that may be multi-classed is: a gnome may multi-class an Illusionist.)

I have named my fighters with names that are mnemonics to help me remember what I planned to dual over to (e.g., my female fighter destined to become a Conjuror, is named "Conjuii.") So, if someone will list the schools (besides Conjuror and Illusionist), I'll bet I can edit my post to give the correct specialist mage that I had planned to dual my fighter over to.

Party On!
Edited for clarity and punctuation.

[ 10-06-2002, 09:28 PM: Message edited by: NobleNick ]

[andrewas]

Theres an IWD manual in a PDF on CD1.

But my BG1 manual lists:

Abjurer
Transmuter
Conjurer
Diviner
Enchanter
Illusionist
Invoker
Necromancer

And I think you cant dual to a specialist, but I might be wrong.

[Lord Brass]

Essentially what you say is true andrewas. However, without knowing anything about Planescape, the only game that lets you have contingencies is BG2. You still see the effects in the other games, but it is not a matter of spell mechanics, but game mechanics. Try facing your mage off against an enemy party and see how far you get: one dead mage.

As Dundee says:

PS PS: I never had problems with my pure Mages dying in combat. If they are getting hurt, it is because everybody else is dead already and it is time to reload. Mages should always be placed far behind the party, staying only within casting distance.