Taking out the trash in Yemen!!!

[Ziroc]

Originally posted by Barry the Sprout: quote: Originally posted by Ziroc:

Oh God, I pray that is not what it happening. I personally don't.
Just remember, it was THEM that began the war, by attacking us. I wish they just left us alone.

As Japan said once, "I am afraid we have awaken a giant".[/QUOTE]I know this has been said a lot since the war on terror started, but I really don't think we can look at this as a black and white issue: "They started it, so its their fault if the world blows up eventually.".

If we end up buggering everything up I doubt that anyone will particularly care who started it. OK, so they may have started it, we still have to deal with it and take the best course of action for getting the world to peace. I don't think this is it.[/QUOTE]

And you would feel this same way if say.. the terrorists flew 4 planes into Big Ben, Houses Of Parliament, Buckingham Palace and Tower Bridge?

If so........

[The Hierophant]

Originally posted by Barry the Sprout: And I would personally say that our true test of wisdom and prowess (in my eyes) is in not turning the moderates away from us, not taking them for granted.

And I would personally say that I agree with you [img]smile.gif[/img]
However, this situation is infinately more complex than that. To use 'kill 'em all' tactics would, as you say, create a greater degree of agression toward the Western Hemisphere. Yet by the same token taking a route of non-violence would almost definately provide hard-line militant groups such as Al Qaeda (who do not want peace! They want the jihad, the complete obliteration of the decadent West in the name of Allah!) the opportunity to expand their influence and resources. This is not a time to back down, but it is neither a time to go hog-wild with self-righteous zeal. Kindness to our friends and swift retribution to our enemies is the only course of action.

I would however say that more could be done to ease relations with the leaders of the Islamic world. A deeper and more sensitive undertanding of Islamic, Middle-Eastern culture amongst our own leaders and diplomats for one. For instance, the leaders of Afghanistan and Iraq are multi-lingual, capable of speaking arabic as well as english, yet President Bush makes no attempt to learn their ways and languages. This serves to alienate the people of the region. An appeal must be made to our potential allies in the Middle East to demonstrate that we do indeed care about them and their way of life, and to show that they are not just faceless pawns in a greater political game.

[Barry the Sprout]

Originally posted by Ziroc:

And you would feel this same way if say.. the terrorists flew 4 planes into Big Ben, Houses Of Parliament, Buckingham Palace and Tower Bridge?

If so........[/QUOTE]

Well, thats kind of my point. Because human emotions are involved this will have a tendancy to spiral out of control. The US wants justice for Sept 11th, but the more people we kill in response the more people who in turn want justice for their dead loved ones. Westerners aren't the only people in the world to feel grief, and the victims elsewhere in the world can't flick a switch on the side of their heads to make them think "Well, he deserved it so we shouldn't be sad or feel wronged.". As for whether or not I would feel the same... I honestly don't know. It's kind of hard to say. I'm not trying to preach over how people should feel, just pointing out that there will be a lot more to grieve about unless we stop this approach.

Hierophant, I'm not so sure of your analysis personally. There are some groups out there who oppose the whole Western way of life, but how do they gain support? If Western nations like the US and the UK weren't so oppressive then they would have no support whatsoever. The groups rely on heavy grass-roots support, thats where we have to knock them out. We need to make sure people see these groups for what they are. They aren't a way out of poverty or oppression, they are a way to further it. People won't see that if what the groups say correlates pretty much exactly with what we are doing. This is a "Nested Games" situation here - not everyone is playing the same game for the same goals, and that is causing us to help our enemies.

[ 11-05-2002, 07:53 AM: Message edited by: Barry the Sprout ]

[Attalus]

Hey, they were targeting a terrorist. As for declaring wart on Yemen, the article specifically says that the Yemeni forces were cooperating. Gotta love Hellfire missles, especially when they blow up scum like this. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[Legolas]

I really hope you're all just caught up in the spirit of the moment (or whatever). Being labled a suspected or potential terrorist DOES NOT mean you lose all human rights. It also doesn't justify anyone dropping a hellfire missile on your head. Not many things do.
I realise it's a sensitive subject, especially to Americans. I myself hold absolutely no love for terrorists, but will you just pause and take a look at what you're saying?
If you're all completely serious about this, I can only say I'm disappointed.

Originally posted by Hayashi: 6 people died in the car. I hope, for the US's sake, that all 6 were truly guilty. Otherwise the US wouldn't be much better than the terrorists, would they?

ou are judged by the company you keep. Live with evil men, and you will have to accept the consequences of that action.

Remember, Actions have consequences, making a choice is an action.

Just to reiterate, (Im sure someone has already brought it up) We have (or duely elected representatives by majority vote) have given the okie dokie to the President to wage war on terrorists and take such actions as necessary. In a war, you do not need to drag combatants into court before vaporizing them.

As for being afraid that the big bad terrorists will strike back, I choose not to submit to fear, I choose to act. (not to act because of fear is cowardice) And the US will choose to act, if it gets bad, we will just close our borders to all arabic peoples, this will suck and cause much grief but in the end, the USA is in a singularly good position to completely defend itself against these tyypes of terrorists.

[Timber Loftis]

Originally posted by Hayashi: 6 people died in the car. I hope, for the US's sake, that all 6 were truly guilty. Otherwise the US wouldn't be much better than the terrorists, would they?

IMO, if one was guilty, the rest were reasonable collateral damage.

Look, I know time has passed and now a lot of people want to lament the poor Yemeni. Let me remind you, however, that I, and I venture to say others who live in the US and actually suffered Sept 11, are pretty cool with the notion: If it wears a rag on its head, shoot it.

[ 11-05-2002, 09:33 AM: Message edited by: Timber Loftis ]

[Legolas]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: quote: Originally posted by Hayashi: 6 people died in the car. I hope, for the US's sake, that all 6 were truly guilty. Otherwise the US wouldn't be much better than the terrorists, would they?

IMO, if one was guilty, the rest were reasonable collateral damage.
[/QUOTE]After all, what's a human life, if you'll excuse the sarcasm.

[ 11-05-2002, 09:34 AM: Message edited by: Legolas ]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: quote: Originally posted by Hayashi: 6 people died in the car. I hope, for the US's sake, that all 6 were truly guilty. Otherwise the US wouldn't be much better than the terrorists, would they?

IMO, if one was guilty, the rest were reasonable collateral damage.

Look, I know time has passed and now a lot of people want to lament the poor Yemeni. Let me remind you, however, that I, and I venture to say others who live in the US and actually suffered Sept 11, are pretty cool with the notion: If it wears a rag on its head, shoot it.[/QUOTE]Yikes! TL, thats a pretty extreme position!