When should I dual my kensai?

[Cerek the Barbaric]

In PnP, the fighter classes quit gaining extra attacks and combat bonuses at level 13. Is it the same in BGII?

Will I gain any extra combat bonuses by waiting until level 13?
Or should I dual-class to a mage at level 12?

[Rataxes]

Lvl 13 will get you an extra 1/2 attack and a 2/2/2/3/2 (?) saving throws bonus. Only go for this level if you have ToB or XP cap remover though. Otherwise stick to lvl 9.

[Cerek the Barbaric]

Thanks Rataxas.

I do have ToB installed and I also plan to install the Weimer "Ease of Use" Mod (which has the Exp Cap Remover). So I guess I'll go for level 13.

In the meantime, check out my questions concerning the Weimer Mods in my other thread.

Thanks again. I'll just start calling you the "Answer Man".

[Rataxes]

No problems at all.

[Dace De'Briago]

***POWERGAMERS ONLY [img]smile.gif[/img] ***

I've been considering this idea myself in the past couple of days and there are several good times to dual:

L7: Base attacks become 3/2 rounds. This is 2/1 round if you are a specialist. 6 weapons proficiencies (total) permit grandmastery. Kensai bonus +2 hit/damage. Saving throws drop on attaining this level [img]smile.gif[/img]

L9: Last level that high constitution bonus applies to fighter class. From this point on, we get +3hp/level as a fighter. 1 extra weapon proficiency. Kensai bonus becomes +3 hit/damage. Saving throws drop on attaining this level [img]smile.gif[/img]

L13: Probably the best time to dual class if you want the benefits of dual-classing before 90% of the game has passed. Base attacks rise to 2/1 round for standard proficiency, and 5/2 rounds for a specialist. Saving throws drop on attaining this level [img]smile.gif[/img]

L21: For true powergamers only (i.e. me). At this point, we are able to choose two HLA's (ToB), so we select power attack and critical strike. Kensai bonus becomes +7 hit/damage at this point. 11 weapon proficiencies allow some suitable powergaming weapon choices [img]smile.gif[/img] The ENTIRE POINT of dualling at this point is because our experience point for L21 are conveniently... 32500000XP. I say conveniently because we can become a L22 mage with 47500000XP... which gives us access to a) the THACO of a 21 level Kensai (with my current character, currently running at -17/-14 on/off hand) b) access to the critical strike HLA c) a choice of 4 L10 spells. However, you have to play as a mage with exceptional hitpoints through most of the game until you get to L22 mage... so you do really need to be a 'stat' gamer (also, forget it unless you are soloing - takes waaaaaaaaay too long).

This character is the BEST 'powergamed' character available without raising the XP cap from 8 million with the ToB expansion.

Incidently, my L21/L11 Kensai mage currently has 190hp, which will increase to 199hp when I visit Lum's lovely machine to get my constitution to a healthy 19(ToB). Which will then become 398hp when I decide to use Tensers Transformation. Mmm powergaming [img]smile.gif[/img]

9 x 10hp = 90hp - max for L9 warrior (told you I powergamed)
9 x 5hp = 45hp - con bonuses
12 x 3hp = 36hp - post L9 3hp warrior increases
12hp = familiar
+10% ion stone...
Comes to approx 201hp, dont think the familiar hp are included in the 10% ion stone bonus ...

Anyways, hope this helped [img]smile.gif[/img]

[karlosovic]

When I played a kensai/mage, I dualed at the first point it would let me in SoA
this means that I'm now part-way through ToB with this character being kensai -8 and mage -24
suits me fine. you can keep stacking the few proficiencies you get as a mage on top of the kensai ones (once it's re-instated), and a kensai-mage has access to some really powerful weapon combos.
1 tip. no matter when you dual... all kensai mages should dual wield katanas, especially if you have ToB

[Bardan the Slayer]

I heard alot about Katanas for Kensai-mages, but never bought into it. I always tend to give proficiency 5* in staffs, so I get the most out of the SoTM.

At least, that's the way I played at first.

Now I tend to look at it like this - a 9/20 Kensai/Mage - am I gonna use him more as a mage or a tank? as a mage, of course - so what's the point of giving a guy who is going to see little front-line combat the best weapons? I *never* give CF to a Kensai mage - The Zerth Blade, and a Katana +2 or +1 maybe, but never CF - it is better used elsewhere [img]smile.gif[/img]

[karlosovic]

yeh true but I tend to get carried away with melee and forget to use my mages much. plus look at it this way, CF is only +3 and by ToB hobgoblins are using 2H-sword +3 as standard (maybe exaggeration...). tanks get +5, +6 weapons

[Cerek the Barbaric]

Originally posted by Bardan the Slayer: I heard alot about Katanas for Kensai-mages, but never bought into it. I always tend to give proficiency 5* in staffs, so I get the most out of the SoTM. At least, that's the way I played at first. Now I tend to look at it like this - a 9/20 Kensai/Mage - am I gonna use him more as a mage or a tank? as a mage, of course - so what's the point of giving a guy who is going to see little front-line combat the best weapons? I *never* give CF to a Kensai mage - The Zerth Blade, and a Katana +2 or +1 maybe, but never CF - it is better used elsewhere [img]smile.gif[/img]

But once the kensai reaches level 13, his/her combat skills are as good as any tank {as far as "attacks per round" is concerned}. The kensai is also +3 to hit and damage over and above any strength or weapon bonuses. Other fighter classes don't gain any more appreciable skills until they hit level 20 and start getting those wonderful HLA's.

So - technically - a 13th level kensai is just as much a tank as a 19th level fighter. Admittedly, the AC will be worse, but the kensai bonuses help offset that - and you can always find a cloak/ring/amulet of protection and bracers to help with that.

My main question was whether or not the Attacks per Round increased at level 13 in BGII just as they did in PnP. Now that I know they do...that is when I will dual to mage.

Thanks for all the advice and suggestions. I really appreciate it.