spanish journalist killed after us tank attacks press hotel

[Ronn_Bman]

Originally posted by norompanlasolas: no shots were fired from said hotel, based on all the accounts of those in the area.

NO shots? Based on ALLLLLLLL accounts? Not exactly. The US troops who returned fire were in the area and have an account that specifically states they were receiving fire from the hotel.

This hotel was several stories tall, right? With hundreds of rooms, right? So was everyone inside in a perfect position to say that there was absolutely no sniper fire coming from the hotel? They were in some magical position to verify that there was no possible way a single shot could have come from anywhere in this large hotel? Despite the fact that the soldiers being fired at saw it?

Originally posted by norompanlasolas: sorry james, im not looking for a job right now. ill be sure to post mi cv here if im ever in the need. or you meant just the military background? or the civilian? or my sports merits?

You're just jealous because I have actually done something useful with my life other than bucking the system and protesting and complaining about police brutality. [img]smile.gif[/img]

I don't know how many of you were up watching the news when this all happened early this morning, but I was and Greg Kelly, the embedded reporter with the 2nd Brigade of the 3rd Infantry Division reported shortly after that it was one of their tanks that fired a missle into the hotel after coming under sniper fire from the roof of that building...the tank had aimed at the roof (obviously the shot didn't make its target). He said that the tank operator also had no idea that the building was the Palestine Hotel, only that he was under sniper fire from the roof as well as other areas in that vicinity and he took action to stop it (as he is allowed to).

Whether or not this is the absolute truth isn't known but its the most accurate information we have at this point in time. A a soldier under fire could easily mistake cameras peeking over the balcony for binoculars or a scope considering sniper fire was "coming from several locations in that direction".

How convenient that Baghdad Bob was there to say that we were so desperate that we would shoot civilians as we were being surrounded and destroyed. It is a well known fact that the republican guard and the Fedayeen have no problems using civilians as cover.

Prior to the tanks even crossing the bridge, a camera came under fire and the shots were recorded. Shortly after, U.S. air support was called in to take out snipers in between the camera's position and the tanks. Those in the hotel should be thankful that just one tank missle was lobbed...it could have been worse, way worse.

Earlier in the morning Greg Kelly had also reported of 2 of their embedded journalists (1 Spanish, 1 German) being killed along with 2 U.S. soldiers when they came under fire from Iraqi troops armed with RPG's.

I don't think any conflict should come to war but the Bush administration gave Saddam an option and he chose to let it come to this...why does that make us the bad guys if innocents who would put themselves in harm's way get shot? There are plenty of other reporters that got out of the country early, knowing that they might lose their lives if they stayed.

[norompanlasolas]

Originally posted by MagiK: Quote: Originally posted by norompanlasolas: sorry james, im not looking for a job right now. ill be sure to post mi cv here if im ever in the need. or you meant just the military background? or the civilian? or my sports merits?

You're just jealous because I have actually done something useful with my life other than bucking the system and protesting and complaining about police brutality. [img]smile.gif[/img] [/QUOTE]lolol... i gotta say james, you sometimes crack me up! [img]graemlins/laugh2.gif[/img]

unlike you i have not posted my cv here for everyone to read, so you havent got the faintest clue where ive been or who i am. but hey, if that makes you happy, im reeeally jealous of your grand military career.
[img]graemlins/biglaugh.gif[/img]

[Night Stalker]

norom

Please refrain from petty sniping. Tensions get high enough in this forum without turning things personal.

[Skunk]

It was NOT over the top in a war zone!

In the heady days of my youth, I held an SSC and I did a (what was then mandatory) tour in NI, spending many happy hours in South Armagh being used as target practice - but I never saw the need to call an airstrike on a farmhouse or ask a passing bloody tank to blow up a few buildings in the hope of hitting someone.

Every battlefield is different - and the employment of force changes accordingly. More caution should have been exercised before firing off shells into buildings in a populated zone - but then, we fire officers that show caution in this campaign, as Col. Joe Dowdy of the 1st Marine Regiment discovered to his cost.

As far as I can see, *speed* is the overwhelming priority in this campaign - even if it does cost more civilian lives - because Bush is worried that a long war will cost him poll points.

[ 04-08-2003, 05:44 PM: Message edited by: Skunk ]

[Davros]

Originally posted by Ronn_Bman: Quote: Originally posted by norompanlasolas: no shots were fired from said hotel, based on all the accounts of those in the area.

NO shots? Based on ALLLLLLLL accounts? Not exactly. The US troops who returned fire were in the area and have an account that specifically states they were receiving fire from the hotel.

This hotel was several stories tall, right? With hundreds of rooms, right? So was everyone inside in a perfect position to say that there was absolutely no sniper fire coming from the hotel? They were in some magical position to verify that there was no possible way a single shot could have come from anywhere in this large hotel? Despite the fact that the soldiers being fired at saw it? [/QUOTE]What happened to Brig Gen Brooks's claims of a rocket from the lobby, and why when questioned about the aim of the tank in not hitting the lobby did he decline to take further media questions.

Just another friendly fire incident methinks - we shouldn't be too shocked and awed by them at this late stage of the campaign . The media reports I saw suggested that both tanks knew the reporters where there because they had been watching each other through binocs and cameras for the previous 30 mins.

Originally posted by Davros: Quote: Originally posted by Ronn_Bman: Quote: Originally posted by norompanlasolas: no shots were fired from said hotel, based on all the accounts of those in the area.

NO shots? Based on ALLLLLLLL accounts? Not exactly. The US troops who returned fire were in the area and have an account that specifically states they were receiving fire from the hotel.

This hotel was several stories tall, right? With hundreds of rooms, right? So was everyone inside in a perfect position to say that there was absolutely no sniper fire coming from the hotel? They were in some magical position to verify that there was no possible way a single shot could have come from anywhere in this large hotel? Despite the fact that the soldiers being fired at saw it? [/QUOTE]What happened to Brig Gen Brooks's claims of a rocket from the lobby, and why when questioned about the aim of the tank in not hitting the lobby did he decline to take further media questions.

Just another friendly fire incident methinks - we shouldn't be too shocked and awed by them at this late stage of the campaign . The media reports I saw suggested that both tanks knew the reporters where there because they had been watching each other through binocs and cameras for the previous 30 mins.

[/QUOTE]Brig. Gen Brooks did say that he perhaps didn't have correct information regarding the lobby comment and stated that Cent Comm would have to wait for more information from any investigation on the incident before making any more comments on it.

From what I saw in televised reports, different reporters were announcing not only that shots had been fired from the roof but also that Iraqi's had been firing from the very room which took the missle...is it no surprise that by the time any unofficial news got to Kuwait that it was saying that the shots were coming from the lobby? Brig. Gen. Brooks hadn't even been told yet what floor had been shot by the tank.

[Sir Taliesin]

Originally posted by Skunk: Quote: It was NOT over the top in a war zone!

In the heady days of my youth, I held an SSC and I did a (what was then mandatory) tour in NI, spending many happy hours in South Armagh being used as target practice - but I never saw the need to call an airstrike on a farmhouse or ask a passing bloody tank to blow up a few buildings in the hope of hitting someone.

Every battlefield is different - and the employment of force changes accordingly. More caution should have been exercised before firing off shells into buildings in a populated zone - but then, we fire officers that show caution in this campaign, as Col. Joe Dowdy of the 1st Marine Regiment discovered to his cost.

As far as I can see, *speed* is the overwhelming priority in this campaign - even if it does cost more civilian lives - because Bush is worried that a long war will cost him poll points.[/QUOTE]Don't you find NI a little different than Iraq? I mean after all, how many air strikes were called in Northern Ireland? Was there constant battle going on 24/7 through out your entire time there? When you had down time did you get dressed in civilian clothes and go out and eat or go to the movies or go on a date?

I was in DS and I didn't get to do any of that. Having watched a lot of this war here safely at home this time, I can tell you that most of these men and women haven't had those luxuries either. Before you jump on me for possibly minimizing your experience in NI, let me tell you that I'm not. I give total respect to anyone that has seen war first hand and that includes you.

I just want you to stop and think for a moment about the situation that you were in and the situation that these young men and women are in now, and how they were/are different.

BTW, I was always taught that once battle is joined, speed saves lives on the battle field.

[Ar-Cunin]

Originally posted by Ronn_Bman: Quote: Originally posted by norompanlasolas: no shots were fired from said hotel, based on all the accounts of those in the area.

NO shots? Based on ALLLLLLLL accounts? Not exactly. The US troops who returned fire were in the area and have an account that specifically states they were receiving fire from the hotel.

This hotel was several stories tall, right? With hundreds of rooms, right? So was everyone inside in a perfect position to say that there was absolutely no sniper fire coming from the hotel? They were in some magical position to verify that there was no possible way a single shot could have come from anywhere in this large hotel? Despite the fact that the soldiers being fired at saw it? [/QUOTE]I would image the Reuters people on the 14th floor would have heard something - after all it was them the tank targeted. [img]graemlins/1disgust.gif[/img] (the tanks are quite accurate nowadays)