I hate cars...

[Jorath Calar]

Good advices Charlie, thanks, I knew the car was fairly old so I did ask and tell the cuustomer I had to remove the battery, and she said she knew it was okey because it had been done before. So I did proceed with her consent.

On another note, it's not customary to give tips here, however I did get a tip today, my first ever tip! ... from a american tourist, they are usually very nice, but this one must have been a grandchild of Mother theresa... [img]smile.gif[/img] very polite and chatted while I was pumping asking about my town and the weather, then handed me a 500kr.- bill which is about 5$... told me it was for the service...
I ate well at lunch...

[Charlie]

That's great mate!
Customer service is everything. If you give a good service, better than the bloke down the road or those close by, people will remember you. Even if tipping is not customary you'll find that folk will often try to keep you sweet with a tip for the service you've provided.

Remember what a tip or tips are for...it means this -

T To
I Insure
P Proper
S Service

[ 07-14-2005, 02:23 PM: Message edited by: Charlie ]

[Bungleau]

Originally posted by Charlie: quote: Originally posted by Bungleau: Only Felix can answer that... but how long have 12V batteries been the standard?

No clue... I have however worked on and restored vehicles that pre date the war, peculiarly with 12V batteries, or in the case of some beetles 6V batteries.

Originally posted by Bungleau: Sometimes I love being obfuscatory... and other times, I just like to muddy the waters [img]smile.gif[/img]

So what the **** are you actually saying? [/QUOTE]I'm saying that sometimes I pipe up on the opposite side of my own perspective just to see if the other side could win after all. I happen to agree with you -- design should include how easy it will be to get replacement parts, and having proprietary batteries makes little sense. However, they may be there for a reason... perhaps they need to fit in multiple small locations instead of one big one. I don't know... but I could see a designer doing that. I could also see them getting thumped aside the head from someone more experienced, asking why they didn't just shuffle everything else around to make room for a standard battery.

With Felix having recently left the military, it could be he was driving something designed by one of those other folks... but I'll confess that I don't have enough background to hazard a guess as to what. And also not knowing the evolution of standards in the auto industry (or perhaps knowing too much history), it's conceivable that his vehicle might have been built when such a design was thought to be a good idea.

As for the muddy obfuscatory thing... they're the same thing, from a slightly different point of view.

Sheesh, do I need a better hobby or what?

[Charlie]

Hey, it's all good.
I've played Devils advocate more than once. A 4V battery in the motor vehicle trade is totally unknown to me, this is where my interest lay. Multiple small locations of small batteries may be a plausible design idea, but then the wiring, connections and possibility of failure increase significantly. Even a standard 12V battery is actually a set of 6 X 2V batteries connected in series in a manageable mass with just two poles instead of twelve ....makes sense no? Saves a ton of space and wiring too.

I'm just trying to educate myself on something I've never before come across regarding a motorised vehicle.

[Felix The Assassin]

Originally posted by Charlie: quote: Originally posted by Felix The Assassin: Hmpf. My last vehicle had 6 industrial grade batteries, wired together for a 24VDC system. It used 1/2" studs and 9/16"od nuts to bolt them in place. 15 minutes? Yeap, to remove half the hold downs, maybe.

You had a car/truck carrying 6 X 4 volt industrial batteries? Well I've never ever come across that before in 26 years. I am factory trained and fully qualified in both light vehicle and heavy commercial vehicles, this is a first for me. (It may obviously be a USA thing). Surely 2 X 12 volt batteries connected in series was the original configuration. What vehicle was it? I'm amazed and don't see the sense in it.... sounds bloody messy. Must be difficult finding a 4V battery for it too surely?

Hey, not saying I disbelieve you....just trying to get my head around the pro's and con's of it....I mean why? [/QUOTE]Nope.
You fell for it. As my post stated, vehicle.
My last vehicle was an M1A1 Abrams.

You think 6x12 VDC batteries produce energy? Haw, you have to witness what a 1500 GE turbine can do to said battery set-up. Actually that set-up is weak. We have an APU (Aux Power Unit) to supplement said battery for night watch, or fuel conservation operations. Vehicle specific, some will start as low as 18VDC, and some grumpy ones want at least 22VDC.

[Charlie]

You kinda lost me.

6X 12V in series will give a 72V system. You mentioned 6 batteries giving 24V....IE 6X 4 Volts. I fail to see the sense in that application be it a car, a truck, a tank or a jumbo jet. It's the 4 Volt battery that really intrigues me, why go that far off the beaten track, especially in a military vehicle. A 12V battery is commonplace and can be found virtually anywhere...Just what you need to keep your tank going in a tricky situation. A 4V battery is specialised and rare.

Ugh, abandon ship boys, we can't start her, we're all of 4 volts short and there's no 4 volters to be found. Dang! this 12 volter's waaay too big! (I jest obviously [img]smile.gif[/img] )

Pardon the pun but maybe we've got crossed wires.

[Felix The Assassin]

Do some research on your Challenger MBT.

ALL, US military tactical vehicles are 24VDC. From a simple forklift through Hummers (Jeep on steroids), IFVs to MBTs. One standard, one voltage.
A Hummer has 2x12 VDC batteries. Larger trucks, like the HEMMET or 10T have 4, IFVs and Artillery guns have 4 as well, MBTs and tank recovery vehicles all have 6.
Basic elec says two 12VDC batteries wired in unison make 24VDC. Same theory, either 2x2s, or 3x3s, still make 24VDC. Difference being CCAs, even a wimpy hummer can slave off a tank with low but good batteries, so no need to abandon ship, either just fire up the APU, or call the 1st shirt over to slave you off.

It appears that the Challenegr dozer kit needs 28VDC, to operate it's electrical motor. Pretty much identical to our mieplough. http://www.pearson-eng.com/dozerudk1.html

[Lavindathar]

Originally posted by Charlie: Not correct, some vehicles are right proper bastards. Some vehicles, particularly high performance Japanese cars leave so little cabling that simply unbolting the battery clamp and moving said battery a few inches is practically impossible. Yes, I work on high performance Japanese cars, Evolutions, FTO's, GTO's, Imprezas and Skylines, the kind of stuff you'll see in Gran Turismo.

If you read my first post, I said that Jap motors are the only tricky ones.

And I know what you mean, I've done a lot of work on Skylines, Supras, MR2 Turbos, Evos, FTO's and Imprezas.

Only one I've not played with yet that I want too is the 350Z. Had a drive, but nothing has broken on one yet. [img]graemlins/lol.gif[/img]