To The Menfolk... No Need To Be Insulting! 8*( - Page 3

RudeDawg · 04-29-2001, 01:16 PM

Can't we all just get along?

------------------

The RudeDawg
Known in these Forgotten Realms as Perin LightEyes

Memnoch · 04-29-2001, 01:17 PM

Now THIS is discussion.

Let's keep the tone like this, and nut this all out in a civilized, reasonable way, so that EVERYONE is happy. No-one should feel like they lost out because of this.

------------------

[This message has been edited by Memnoch (edited 04-29-2001).]

Cloudbringer · 04-29-2001, 01:25 PM

*Heavy Sigh*

Ok, I am sorry, but I didn't see anything in the Testosterone Home thread to offend me. I looked again just now to be sure, as I had stopped reading early last night. Lots of rugby talk and such. A few silly or off-color remarks...a joke about 'sextoys' but not directed at anyone in particular or even mentioning women in conjunction with it.

I will add that I am VERY aware of the issues Moiraine describes and have in fact pulled duty as a Sexual Harassment Advisor for my division (21 academic departments)in the past. I myself, have lived some of those unpleasant events. So I will add that if a comment is made directly to a woman (or a man!) and that individual finds it offensive, vulgar or upsetting, it is treated as harrasment at my workplace. That said, I hasten to point out that no individual or individuals were flamed or insulted directly, that I saw. Unless I missed something?

But in fairness, I must say that I'm sorry LadyRae did feel insulted or ridiculed when reading that thread. Her feelings count, even if we don't see the reason behind them. So, LadyRae, I hope you can get past this series of postings and continue to enjoy the board.

I may be being presumptuous, but is it possible that you had all that unpleasantness from the workplace and the world at large building up and when you saw the Testosterone thread it was the 'last straw'? I hope you can feel good about this place again soon.

Cloudbringer

------------------

Raindancer of the Laughing Hyenas Clan
Storm-Queen
StormCloud of the Black Knight
Heart Mind Soul Forever

RudeDawg · 04-29-2001, 01:46 PM

OK, my $0.02

As a child, I was paralyzed, from my chest down, for 2 years. Yes, LadyRae, people did call me a freak, and worse. Kids at school would tip over my wheelchair, and laugh while I tried to squirm back to it. Adults would ignore me, assuming that i was mentally challenged because my body didn't work.

Singling out someone because they are different is wrong. This cuts both ways. If I had been deferred to, singled out in a nice way, it could have kept me from trying.

During my therapy, I was taught that by my actions I could overcome the problem. It took seven years, but, eventually, I could walk, run, swim, and even compete in those events.

I another vein, I am an American with a Mexican heritage. (Check my photo on Stealthy's) English is my second language, and I was raised in an environment that leaned to the Mexican side.

Now, as an adult, I have heard EVERY Mexican joke out there. My friends still call me Manuel Labor when they need something moved. I have been handcuffed, and pulled out of my car, because I am the wrong color in the neighborhood than I was driving through. My clients (I deal with retirees) still mention that they always liked to hire Mexicans on their ranches, because "you're such good workers, and cheap too."

The secret to dealing with this is to build on it. Let it build your character. Grow.

But, most importantly, KNOW WHO YOUR FRIENDS ARE. You are loved, and appreciated, here. Don't let a few thoughtless comments upset you. WE ARE YOUR FRIENDS.

Remember, friends step on each other's toes because we stand so close to each other.

Don't push us away.

We love ya!

------------------

The RudeDawg
Known in these Forgotten Realms as Perin LightEyes

Memnoch · 04-29-2001, 01:57 PM

Brilliant post, RudeDawg, and thanks for sharing!

NOW I'm off to bed.

------------------

Ladyzekke · 04-29-2001, 02:33 PM

Oh God RudeDawg your wheelchair days sound horrible! The mental picture I got truly broke my heart! So sorry you had to go through that. It sounds like you have overcome quite a lot of enormous obstacles. From what I can see from my end, you have triumphed over them valiantly. You have my true respect.

During my 35 years on this earth, I have witnessed many forms of human degredation, some aimed towards myself, being female and very small. The stories I could tell! These experiences though has helped me grow stronger as a person, and also I am able to discern (well, for the most part) from true racism and just words not meant seriously. I try to make it a point to be as forgiving of people as I can, as we are all just imperfect humans.

Again, I totally respect everyone's opinions on this topic regardless. That is what makes this forum so special, as we can all disagree on certain issues, and still remain friends.

------------------

Cloudbringer · 04-29-2001, 02:42 PM

RudeDawg

Bravo!

Much of what happens to shape us, is in our perceptions of things. How we use our experiences and learn from them is what makes us each unique.

CB

------------------

Raindancer of the Laughing Hyenas Clan
Storm-Queen
StormCloud of the Black Knight
Heart Mind Soul Forever

RudeDawg · 04-29-2001, 02:54 PM

Remember the opening image from Conan the Barbarian

A black background, and the words appear:

"That which does not kill us makes us stronger" - Friedrich Nietzsche

It sounds weird, but I am truly grateful for those days...

I learned to be thankful for what I have.

If I wake up, and my legs are working, I'm happy. I could be broke, and sick, and alone. But I would be happy, because I know what I have...

I am eternally grateful for that attitude.

That's why I feel bad that we upset LadyRae. I know how easy it is to feel singled out, and attacked. And , because I know that we all respect her and her friendship, it pains me that we ellicited this reaction.

I hope that you, LadyRae, KNOW that we meant no disrespect, or pain, from our thread.

------------------

The RudeDawg
Known in these Forgotten Realms as Perin LightEyes

Cloudbringer · 04-29-2001, 02:59 PM

RudeDawg

You have a very nice way with words.

I understand all to well what you are saying. I have not shared all my sorrows and pains with the board but the ones they have seen are ones that made me stronger. I know what you mean about being glad that those bad times did happen, and surviving them! They made me who I am today. Those bad times helped me to truly appreciate the good ones. To appreciate what I have and to know that there are others in the world not as fortunate as I am.

May we all learn a little something from each other. May we all grow a little in each others company.

Cloudy

------------------

Raindancer of the Laughing Hyenas Clan
Storm-Queen
StormCloud of the Black Knight
Heart Mind Soul Forever

Moiraine · 04-29-2001, 03:27 PM

RudeDawg, wow man, you rock, I am truly grateful you are here with us.

I would add, I didn't feel in the least offended by the posts in the men's thread, because they didn't come from just anybody, they came from friends I know and appreciate. They just called for some response from us girls with the same tone !

But I could understand why LadyRae could feel agressed by them, so I tried to explain why. We all have our good days and our bad days, after all, and there are days when we are not in the mood for 'sexist' jokes, even if we know that they don't reflect the true thinking of the men who tell them.

------------------

The world is my oyster !

[This message has been edited by Moiraine (edited 04-29-2001).]

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04-29-2001, 01:16 PM	#21
RudeDawg 20th Level Warrior Join Date: April 9, 2001 Location: Dallas, Tx, USA Age: 55 Posts: 2,830	Can't we all just get along? ------------------ The RudeDawg Known in these Forgotten Realms as Perin LightEyes

04-29-2001, 01:17 PM	#22
Memnoch Ironworks Moderator Join Date: February 28, 2001 Location: Boston/Sydney Posts: 11,771	Now THIS is discussion. Let's keep the tone like this, and nut this all out in a civilized, reasonable way, so that EVERYONE is happy. No-one should feel like they lost out because of this. ------------------ [This message has been edited by Memnoch (edited 04-29-2001).]

04-29-2001, 01:25 PM	#23
Cloudbringer Ironworks Moderator Join Date: March 1, 2001 Location: Upstate NY USA Posts: 19,737	Heavy Sigh Ok, I am sorry, but I didn't see anything in the Testosterone Home thread to offend me. I looked again just now to be sure, as I had stopped reading early last night. Lots of rugby talk and such. A few silly or off-color remarks...a joke about 'sextoys' but not directed at anyone in particular or even mentioning women in conjunction with it. I will add that I am VERY aware of the issues Moiraine describes and have in fact pulled duty as a Sexual Harassment Advisor for my division (21 academic departments)in the past. I myself, have lived some of those unpleasant events. So I will add that if a comment is made directly to a woman (or a man!) and that individual finds it offensive, vulgar or upsetting, it is treated as harrasment at my workplace. That said, I hasten to point out that no individual or individuals were flamed or insulted directly, that I saw. Unless I missed something? But in fairness, I must say that I'm sorry LadyRae did feel insulted or ridiculed when reading that thread. Her feelings count, even if we don't see the reason behind them. So, LadyRae, I hope you can get past this series of postings and continue to enjoy the board. I may be being presumptuous, but is it possible that you had all that unpleasantness from the workplace and the world at large building up and when you saw the Testosterone thread it was the 'last straw'? I hope you can feel good about this place again soon. Cloudbringer ------------------ Raindancer of the Laughing Hyenas Clan Storm-Queen StormCloud of the Black Knight Heart Mind Soul Forever

04-29-2001, 01:46 PM	#24
RudeDawg 20th Level Warrior Join Date: April 9, 2001 Location: Dallas, Tx, USA Age: 55 Posts: 2,830	OK, my $0.02 As a child, I was paralyzed, from my chest down, for 2 years. Yes, LadyRae, people did call me a freak, and worse. Kids at school would tip over my wheelchair, and laugh while I tried to squirm back to it. Adults would ignore me, assuming that i was mentally challenged because my body didn't work. Singling out someone because they are different is wrong. This cuts both ways. If I had been deferred to, singled out in a nice way, it could have kept me from trying. During my therapy, I was taught that by my actions I could overcome the problem. It took seven years, but, eventually, I could walk, run, swim, and even compete in those events. I another vein, I am an American with a Mexican heritage. (Check my photo on Stealthy's) English is my second language, and I was raised in an environment that leaned to the Mexican side. Now, as an adult, I have heard EVERY Mexican joke out there. My friends still call me Manuel Labor when they need something moved. I have been handcuffed, and pulled out of my car, because I am the wrong color in the neighborhood than I was driving through. My clients (I deal with retirees) still mention that they always liked to hire Mexicans on their ranches, because "you're such good workers, and cheap too." The secret to dealing with this is to build on it. Let it build your character. Grow. But, most importantly, KNOW WHO YOUR FRIENDS ARE. You are loved, and appreciated, here. Don't let a few thoughtless comments upset you. WE ARE YOUR FRIENDS. Remember, friends step on each other's toes because we stand so close to each other. Don't push us away. We love ya! ------------------ The RudeDawg Known in these Forgotten Realms as Perin LightEyes

04-29-2001, 01:57 PM	#25
Memnoch Ironworks Moderator Join Date: February 28, 2001 Location: Boston/Sydney Posts: 11,771	Brilliant post, RudeDawg, and thanks for sharing! NOW I'm off to bed. ------------------

04-29-2001, 02:33 PM	#26
Ladyzekke Ironworks Atomic Moderator Join Date: January 7, 2001 Location: Virginia, U.S.A. Age: 57 Posts: 9,005	Oh God RudeDawg your wheelchair days sound horrible! The mental picture I got truly broke my heart! So sorry you had to go through that. It sounds like you have overcome quite a lot of enormous obstacles. From what I can see from my end, you have triumphed over them valiantly. You have my true respect. During my 35 years on this earth, I have witnessed many forms of human degredation, some aimed towards myself, being female and very small. The stories I could tell! These experiences though has helped me grow stronger as a person, and also I am able to discern (well, for the most part) from true racism and just words not meant seriously. I try to make it a point to be as forgiving of people as I can, as we are all just imperfect humans. Again, I totally respect everyone's opinions on this topic regardless. That is what makes this forum so special, as we can all disagree on certain issues, and still remain friends. ------------------

04-29-2001, 02:42 PM	#27
Cloudbringer Ironworks Moderator Join Date: March 1, 2001 Location: Upstate NY USA Posts: 19,737	RudeDawg Bravo! Much of what happens to shape us, is in our perceptions of things. How we use our experiences and learn from them is what makes us each unique. CB ------------------ Raindancer of the Laughing Hyenas Clan Storm-Queen StormCloud of the Black Knight Heart Mind Soul Forever

04-29-2001, 02:54 PM	#28
RudeDawg 20th Level Warrior Join Date: April 9, 2001 Location: Dallas, Tx, USA Age: 55 Posts: 2,830	Remember the opening image from Conan the Barbarian A black background, and the words appear: "That which does not kill us makes us stronger" - Friedrich Nietzsche It sounds weird, but I am truly grateful for those days... I learned to be thankful for what I have. If I wake up, and my legs are working, I'm happy. I could be broke, and sick, and alone. But I would be happy, because I know what I have... I am eternally grateful for that attitude. That's why I feel bad that we upset LadyRae. I know how easy it is to feel singled out, and attacked. And , because I know that we all respect her and her friendship, it pains me that we ellicited this reaction. I hope that you, LadyRae, KNOW that we meant no disrespect, or pain, from our thread. ------------------ The RudeDawg Known in these Forgotten Realms as Perin LightEyes

04-29-2001, 02:59 PM	#29
Cloudbringer Ironworks Moderator Join Date: March 1, 2001 Location: Upstate NY USA Posts: 19,737	RudeDawg You have a very nice way with words. I understand all to well what you are saying. I have not shared all my sorrows and pains with the board but the ones they have seen are ones that made me stronger. I know what you mean about being glad that those bad times did happen, and surviving them! They made me who I am today. Those bad times helped me to truly appreciate the good ones. To appreciate what I have and to know that there are others in the world not as fortunate as I am. May we all learn a little something from each other. May we all grow a little in each others company. Cloudy ------------------ Raindancer of the Laughing Hyenas Clan Storm-Queen StormCloud of the Black Knight Heart Mind Soul Forever

04-29-2001, 03:27 PM	#30
Moiraine Anubis Join Date: March 1, 2001 Location: Up in the Freedomland Alps Age: 59 Posts: 2,474	RudeDawg, wow man, you rock, I am truly grateful you are here with us. I would add, I didn't feel in the least offended by the posts in the men's thread, because they didn't come from just anybody, they came from friends I know and appreciate. They just called for some response from us girls with the same tone ! But I could understand why LadyRae could feel agressed by them, so I tried to explain why. We all have our good days and our bad days, after all, and there are days when we are not in the mood for 'sexist' jokes, even if we know that they don't reflect the true thinking of the men who tell them. ------------------ The world is my oyster ! [This message has been edited by Moiraine (edited 04-29-2001).]

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