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Old 01-11-2001, 10:39 AM   #21
Desdicado
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Totally, the Cavalier is nice too. kinda like the idea of a multiplayer party with 4 paladins, 3 with kits, wonder if it would work?.
If only I had the time and an understanding girlfriend to let me try all these BG2 ideas !.
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Old 01-11-2001, 10:47 AM   #22
Father Bronze
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I try to play the thief stealing according to the alignment of the party leader. If the leader is Lawful Good I don't feel they would appreciate one of their party constantly ripping off vendors. In most other cases I feel free to steal. Also, I don't see a problem with selling and reselling. I imagine the theif tactic not as a pickpocket of the item and then trying to sell the item back. I look at it more as the theif getting the vendor to give back the incorrect amount of change. We've all heard the old line, "I gave you a $20 not a $10." I know the game doesn't portray it that way, but I guess that's how I explain it.

Possible spoiler . . .




Don't max out your thieving skills (280 pickpocket) by drinking something like 5 potions of mater thievery. I've gotten caught. To steal efficiently keep the percentage around 230 and you should be fine. I always try to get the right percentage and try stealing from some thief that is expendable (like the fencer in Gaylen's home -- upstairs) so that if she gets angry I can wax her, drink another potion and head over to the Copper Coronet.
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Old 01-11-2001, 11:07 AM   #23
Desdicado
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The merchant in Gaeylan Bayles home has some nice equipment right enough. Your point about change has salved my admittedly easily placated conscience. didn't know about the skill max, usually work at around 185.
My main character is a paladin, so I'll just say he's not seen what the thief has been up to.
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Old 01-11-2001, 02:20 PM   #24
Jon the Hell Caster
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hehehe but when you get caught........ Better hope you have a mage with Dimension Door! Here is an example
Jon: Can you show me your scrolls?
Merchant: Sure!
Jon: thinks(Look at this level 9 scroll! I better take it)
Jon: Create fake copy: Scroll
Jon: Thanks for letting me look!
Merchant: Youre Welcome,
Merchant: HEY! THIS IS A FAKE!
Jon: Gotta go bye! Dimension door Jon
 
Old 01-11-2001, 08:35 PM   #25
Tobbin
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Join Date: March 1, 2001
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Hey Yorick, what's the chance I could get a snippet of one of your songs? Would appreciate it greatly.
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Old 01-12-2001, 12:08 AM   #26
Yorick
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Thanks Thieldrim, I did quantify by saying those musicians I knew.
I've been thinking, and probably (a cautious probably) wouldn't mind if I personally had stuff of mine on Napster, as I enjoy having people hear my music. But I do know of those who hate the fact that 'fans' are stealing their songs. As I said before it's about the artist's volition. If they had no say in it going on it wrongs them.

Well may you say that Record co's lose more money, and in terms of real dollars you are right - they lose more.

In terms of a percentage of their income though, the artist loses more. How else does an artist get paid? The songwriter gets money if a song is plastered all over the radio and television, but it's not always the artist that writes the songs. Tours can lose money and - the cynic would say - exist purely to promote the record.

Re. Software, I heard Amiga's went out of buisiness because of Piracy. Am I wrong? It's a while since I heard that. Also software is more expensive to buy than music and can take longer to download than a single mp3. Besides, do two wrongs make a right?

Cds and games are probably too expensive, fine. The artist makes less on a disc than the record co. fine. Some artists may benefit from the limited and double edged 'exposure' of Napster downloading fame, granted. The fact remains though that when a product is made, the creators need to see a profit so they can eat, and so they can keep creating similar products efficiently.
If we ALL file swapped under the current system that would not happen and that would wrong the creators considerably.
For me not downloading is the lesser of two evils ie. either give money to 'greedy' record companies OR take away from the artist the 'scraps' the record co's give them.

Please note I'm not having a go at the odd download here and there if it means you're sampling the artist or game. But there are quite a few guys I know who, because they download, NEVER buy CDs. Ironically they're the ones who can afford to!

How would you feel if it were your ideas being stolen? Your 'children' of the mind?
As I said I'm in two minds about it for myself (if you can't beat them, join them), but have no hesitation in decrying it in principle, and asking more technologically sound minds to create a solution.

Mind you thinkers have had centuries to find a solution to the problem of an artist selling a painting for a pittance, and then watching it get resold for so much more.
Why in this day and age it can't be considered a permanent lease, with a fraction going back to the artist if it changes hands is beyond me.
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Old 01-12-2001, 05:42 AM   #27
Migosh
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Yorick, I beleive you know me.. I jsut gotta say that I think you are being WAY to hard on napster and the whole "mp3" thing. If it wasn't for mp3s I would not have the passion for music that I do today, nor would I being doing a Diploma in Contemporay music. The fact that you can download tracks of artists you have never heard before to "check them out" to have such easy access to so many different bands and music all over the world.

look at it this way.. the radio is much the same, we call jsut tape the tracks being played on the radio and keep them for ourselves. But its not the same is it? personally I always prefer to buy an album of band that I really enjoy listening to.. but not before ive heard some of there stuff on mp3.

I do know how much CRAP you have to go through to get you music out into the big wide world without the added bonus of the internet. The internet makes it so much easyer for all those people that don't have the funding for such things.. the internet and mp3s are a GOOD thing I asure you.. I don't think its going away either, even Madonna is on mp3.com now.

If you want to discuss it more you can jsut email me.. I just had to add my tidbit.
 
Old 01-12-2001, 06:34 AM   #28
Yorick
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Migosh! Fair enough, those indeed are the arguments in favour. It worked in a positive in your case. Re the radio, the diff is the quality reduction. With mp3's there's a quality reduction but far less noticible. Also there is the reproduction and passing on element. Not enough people are aware of the argument against Napster though, which is why there is such proliferation of piracy. I'm sure if they saw the reaction of the artist they claim to be a fan of things may be different.

To artists like Madonna it'd be a drop in the ocean, as she's established and finacial. To a new artist it could be potentially devastating. (All downloads = no sales = no recoupment or industry recognition = dropped from record co.)

NB. Downloading from an official site, is very different from a Napter or Napster clone. The difference is the artists volition.

Oh, and I haven't taped from the radio since I was 12.

I'm sure the situation won't remain in stasis though. Thanks for the reply Migosh, viva la difference!

Tobbin, for sure. Email me at chanteur@bigpond.com for a tune.
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Old 01-12-2001, 10:50 AM   #29
Thieldrim
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And yorick - one other observation on the Napster topic is that people do indeed Pirate software, in large quantities, but it continues to be developed. people do it as simply as buying the software, copying it, and returning it, or downloading from a cracked site. it is all illegal, but very proliferous. The music industry unfortunately does not have good mechanisms for ensuring that new artists can have easy recording opps, but it is now the record labels that are loosing the most money, not the artists themselves. i have several friends who are burgeoning music artists and would be well served by napster (or other file sharing) exposure, but as of yet, they are not large enough to be identified in 'discover' sections. not ALL artists hate napster, some love it.

okay, that was several observations...

oh, and i don't think that pickpocketing and selling is cheating, but not that much point in it - there seems to be an abundance of money in the game as it is...
 
Old 01-12-2001, 04:55 PM   #30
Moriartty
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Stealing is not cheating. That statement is correct.

Unfortunately I think stealing in BG2 IS cheating.

Why?

How do you pickpocket a longsword off someone? Or a mace? how about an entire suit of armor.

Pickpocketing is exactly what it says it is. you should be stealing small items that the owner wont notice are gone right away.

I can almost see rgabbing a sword a guy set down and turned away from and sticking it in your cloak. Unfortunately I dont ever see how you coul actually steal a suit of Plate Armor.

Then again I prefer the Diablo method of equipement storage. Larger items took up more space and this was much more realistic. Its just about the only area I prefer Diablo over BG. In BG2 they only consider weight. So my fighter with 19 strenth can lug around 6 suits of plate armor. Uh huh yeah right.

I tried to play for a bit while staying within the spirit of D&D which has encumbrance rules for items. you cannot really do it in BG2 though. There is just too much gear out there that you end up needing. Either you are alwaya up sh*t creek or you are running back to your stronghold every other day to rab some item you need for a subquest.

Just my two cents though.
 
 


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