POST-PARTY ANNOUNCEMENT!!!!

[Cloudbringer]

Originally posted by Moridin: Sorry CB! I did misread your post Hope your headache get better

That's ok, Moridin.

Hey, I work with pre-teens and teens at church. I had to go through a bit of training for that and I can't tell you how much it pains me to hear about your nephew! We practice the two-adults at all times method of being sure our kids are safe from predators at youth functions. Always two unrelated adults at all events. And no child is alone with just one, ever. With the one exception of a girl, whose family I know well and who asks me to transport her to these things sometimes. I hope those boys have recovered as much as they can, Moridin. That's a shock for any child.

CB

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Storm-Queen
StormCloud of the Black Knight

[Yorick]

Leonis. You are a sage. That post knocked me for six. A wise man versed in the diplomatic arts surely you are.

Respect brother.

[Black Knight]

Originally posted by Yorick: Leonis. You are a sage. That post knocked me for six. A wise man versed in the diplomatic arts surely you are. Respect brother.

Hey, not to go off-topic (I've already said my piece) but is this saying 'knocked me for six' a Cricket thing?

Just trying to reach out and understand my multi-cultural friends.

BK

[Ramon de Ramon y Ramon]

Originally posted by Leonis: hmm, perhaps i should elaborate a touch more: example, if someone is reared in an environment where nudity, for whtever reason is considered appropriate only within strict boundaries, and another where it is considered natural in many situations; where is the common ground and who finds it easier to compromise? the first may respect the second's rights but suffer inbuilt guilt or discomfort they are unable to deal with and have to remove themself from the situation to avoid the ramifications particular to their experience. the second may not *like* to compromise but may be more equipped to deal with the situation as to cover up will not cause a cultural/moral reaction in the same way. Does this make sense? How do we feel about this?

Leonis and CloudDisputer, thanks for your input/reactions as well !

I will start off by saying that I am more interested in the general implications
of the issue, see above. As an issue of self-regulation of the board, I don't see so much reason for concern and actual dissent. If you include what I said of courtesy into "my" concept of mutual respect, I think we pretty much come up with "your" concept of mutual respect, Leonis.

There is still one aspect where I continue to disagree with you, Cb: I just do not see the necessity to protect minors. Anything most of us could even conceive is pale to what is readily available elsewhere to any teen surfing the web. I will also reiterate that I doubt that "normal" indecency is really that harmful to kids - you already know that I mostly agree with you on the potential harm of peer pressure in such matters, but there is no peer pressure on this board, this place is much too mature for that and can you really picture a bunch of teens gathered in front of a pc to check out "nasty stuff" ending up here ? So, whom are you trying to protect ? Jerome, from inadvertently learning a word he did not know already ? Or from getting the not so mistaken notion that romantic relationships among adults usually involve sexuality and that they enjoy it and that it therefore carries over into roleplaying ?

If you want to adhere to your personal code of conduct, that is completely understandable. But isn't that more than anything else a matter of staying within your personal comfort zone ? There is nothing wrong with doing so and also not with asking the others to respect that, even so, if whatever bothers you, was not even directed at you. And your wish should be complied with. If you call that mutual respect or "just" courtesy is not of practical relevance here.
But as it is more of a personal matter and NOT one of adhering to a generally valid standard, it can also be excepted that the one feeling discomfort lets the "offender" know about it. Doing so can be an embarrassing experience, especially publicly, but we have email and I agree with Leeonis that we should strive to be considerate and try to spare anyone from having to enter his zone of discomfort in the first place. But always achieving that is almost impossible and nobody can be expected to be a mindflayer, uh, make that mind reader, either. So, that is really my main point here: much of the decency discussion earlier on here sounded to me - I might have been completely mistaken - as if the matter was one of "offender" and "victim" instead one of personal or cultural differences.

Cb, much of the above was not directed at you, as you have already agreed to some, and claimed you right to disagree on some more, which I will respect.
But I wanted to sum up my position on the board-related part of the issue, as my first post really mingled the board and general discussion aspect too much.

And relax people, I'll really have to spend much more of my enery on finding a new apartment and job in the days comming up, so that will spare many more posts like this from me - in the near future !

Btw, Leonis, I happen to think that a - friendly - "clash of civilizations" can be among the most educating and even delightful experiences of all !


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So long !


R³ - Co-president(s) of the Club of Broken Hearts

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Ramon de Ramon y Ramon: There is still one aspect where I continue to disagree with you, Cb: I just do not see the necessity to protect minors.

Ramon the innocence of chilhood is a wonderful and happy thing. Out of care and love for those younger than us, and sometimes to give them what we had taken from us is why minors should be protected. Just because violence is diplayed on T.V. is no reason to lower the bar. Rather we should be raising the bar (reducing exposure to needless gratituous violence) so that kids do not replicate the role modelling they are subjected to.

Additionally the childs mind is like a sponge, with memory retention and absorbtion higher than an adults (clouded by preconceptions and habits). The child is still formulating opinions/morals/consequential theories that an adult already possesses. In other words, an adult knows where to draw the line and what happens if they choose to cross it. Whereas a child has not had the experience to know the results of crossing that line. (Highlighted by Leonis bravely vulnerable example.)

B.K yes I suppose it is a cricket terminology. Blown away, bowled over, stunned, amazed, left speechless etc are all relevant idioms too.

Finally, I don't think this has anything to do with "prudish" U.S. culture (where did that come from BTW) I am Australian with concern for minors to start with! Also while they may be more 'closed minded' in some areas, they are more 'open minded' and expressive in others. Let's beware of culture bashing here eh? All cultures have collective weaknesses and strengths let us remember.

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O.K..... what do I do now?


A fair dinkum laughing Hyena!

[This message has been edited by Yorick (edited 04-03-2001).]

[Ramon de Ramon y Ramon]

Originally posted by Moridin: I thought about letting this drop into the nether regions but I think I have to clarify/explain a little better my previous post. I am/was not offended by any of the activities of the Moon's Hope Inn (or any other thread). It would take way more than that to offend me CB--You mention in your post that just b/c someone might have access to material they think is inappropriate, then you should not change how you act/talk. I agree with you on this IN MOST CASES. However, we KNOW that there are underage kids on this forum and we have to take the responsibility to act accordingly. It is one thing to act in an adult manner when you know there are only adults, but it is another to act that way blatently in front of kids! We cannot check ID's at the door and we therefore IMHO have to act in an appropriate manner. For example, think what you would think if you took your children into a bar and these 'acts' were taking place. Would you allow your children to 'participate' or 'watch'? I can already see that many people are thinking....boy what does this guy have against a little fun and games? He is getting too worked up over such a small thing. PLEASE KEEP READING TO MAYBE UNDERSTAND WHERE I AM COMING FROM My sixth grade teacher, a person I trusted, who helped me attain many things in high school and even into collage, was recently arrested for soliciting underage (minor) boys for sex. He did this through internet chat rooms! This is his second time being arrested for this and part of his 'deal with police' is to implicate over 50 other men he knew that also used the internet to find sex, all with underage children! This frightens me! This is someone I thought I knew. I would have vouched for his character anytime, but now this comes out. ----------------------------------- That was the most recent. The next is a little more shocking, for me at least. My nephew, who is now 10, and his three brothers (all with the same mother but different fathers), were used by his mom and her then boyfriend to make child-pornography! While this part is shocking enough, it gets worse. The mother and her boyfriend both went to jail (fortunately), but before they did they were able to distribute the video tapes and pictures. My nephew now is 'big' into computers and spends a lot of time online in various chat rooms. Just after christmas this past year, he was sent an email from a supposed friend that he met in a 'disney' chat room. THE EMAIL CONTAINED AN ATTACHED PICTURE OF TWO OF HIS BROTHERS PERFORMING 'SEXUAL' ACTS WITH HIS MOM! Luckily, he notified my sister (step-mom) about this email and she notified the police and they were able to track the person down who sent the email. It was a 39 year old man from Alaska, who police say frequented chat rooms looking to solicite sex with underage males! I am in no way saying that anyone here is like these men. However, there are people out there who look for 'forums' and 'chatrooms' that are frequented by underage boys and girls and we have to admit that a 'gaming' forum would fit that criteria. Now I am sounding like an almighty ass! I don't want things to stop. This forum has become a big part of me and I enjoy the diverse opinions and cultures. But, just remember that we don't have a way to police identities on this board and therefore we really have to take the responsibility upon ourselves to 'control' our content. I am now stepping off my soap box and leaving for a while to avoid the rocks/bottles/insults/looks of disgust that are hurled my way

I'll certainly not throw anything you ! I'll rather say that I emphathize and sympathize with you: you are probably quite shocked by learning of these terrible events and deeds and that is most understandable.

But: there is one part of your post - the third paragraph, maybe I am misinterpreting it - that troubles me, because it appears as if you were suggesting a connection of all of the discussed here above and what you then go on to describe/report and that would be a major misconception:

But there is absolutely no connection whatsoever between anything that has been going on or could even possibly ever be going on here and your report: one is behaviour that could be at the worst called indecent, the other hideous acts that are not condoned in any present culture I would know of and are penalized as most serious crimes in any country I could think of !

There is but one connection. Both involves the use of the internet, but that is highly irrevalent, since the internet is nothing but a medium. Other then that linking the two makes as much sense as linking a mildly erotic "neckbiter" romance novel available at each newsstand with an outlawed childporn magazine the possession of which equals many years in prison. Doing so would be not only be completely wrong, but would actually serve to BELITTLE the magnitude of the hideous crimes you described. Sexuality and illegal pornograghy must never be confused !

Let me end by saying that I don't mind you raising the issue and I even understand the "mental link" that made it come up here, but I'll reiterate that I will most passionately contest the slighest hinting of any actual connection.

If all of the above was nothing but a misunderstanding, please forgive !


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So long !


R³ - Co-president(s) of the Club of Broken Hearts

[Cloudbringer]

Ramon,

Please check your email

...But for the moment, I'm here. Why, I'll never know. I still have that blasted headache.

Look, Yorick's points re: protection of minor's are valid and for the most part MY reasons.


Yes, it's subjective. This whole debate is controversial and emotional because it IS subjective.

But Yorick has covered some good points. Thanks, Bard o'mine.

Cloudy

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Storm-Queen
StormCloud of the Black Knight

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Cloudbringer: Ramon, Please check your email ...But for the moment, I'm here. Why, I'll never know. I still have that blasted headache. Look, Yorick's points re: protection of minor's are valid and for the most part MY reasons. Yes, it's subjective. This whole debate is controversial and emotional because it IS subjective. But Yorick has covered some good points. Thanks, Bard o'mine. Cloudy

Cloudy, turn off your monitor and give your eyes a rest. The posts will accumulate in your absense and you'll feel better when replying (no don't reply to this) so go on.....give your eyes and mind a break dear

I'm going to bed very soon, so I'll see you tomorrow anyway.

Love talking with you Raindancer.

[Cloudbringer]

Originally posted by Yorick: Cloudy, turn off your monitor and give your eyes a rest. The posts will accumulate in your absense and you'll feel better when replying (no don't reply to this) so go on.....give your eyes and mind a break dear I'm going to bed very soon, so I'll see you tomorrow anyway. Love talking with you Raindancer.

LOL...I took some advil and a prescription decongestant...starting to feel better. Will talk to you tomorrow. Sleep well, Bard, sleep well.
Hey, don't be a stranger...I know I have a 'steam, OFF' button around here someplace- I'll use it for a chance to chat with you, anytime you like.

And you know how HARD that is for me, so be flattered!

Raindancer

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Storm-Queen
StormCloud of the Black Knight