Weapon proficiencies?

[Charlie]

Hi all.

(Referring to BG1 here but assume it's the same for BG2)

I still can't get my head around this proficiency business. If I have a fighter then I can assign over two points to a given prof' on gaining a new point. Eg I start the game and assign 2 to large sword, I gain another point at level 6 and can assign that to large sword too giving me 3p in large sword.

Well I'm playing BG1 with an Elf fighter/thief. I finally gain a new point for my fighter level but cannot increase in any proficiency over 2 points.....crazy. I can assign a point to a weapon I've never even seen but can't become more proficient in a weapon I use all the time, even though he's a fighter. To say that multi-class characters gain in two classes is crap as I'm not really receiving any weapon bonuses that should be associated with a fighter class. Surely as a fighter class I should be able to assign 5 proficiency points to large sword or bow if so desired. Any one know what this is all about at all and is the proficiency point system a balls up for multi class characters in BG2 as well? My BG2 fighter (imported from BG1) topped up with 5 points in long bow and 5 points in 2H sword, I had hoped for the same for this fighter/thief.....I really fail to understand this.

Cheers.

i think that mulit-classed fighter cannot have more than 2stars in a weapon, beacuse of their focusing on two classes they lose the extra specliastion.

[Charlie]

Cheers, but a poor cop out imo.

If we apply that logic then we may as well say a thief can't progress in thief levels as he's applying himself to being a fighter. Also he's a fighter/thief not a thief/fighter suggesting that his primary role is that of a fighter. Anyway, so a multiclassed fighter/thief isn't really worth a rub as a fighter as he doesn't actually gain fighter spcialisation advantages....sad. Any other thoughts on this?

i think the idea is he doesnt have enough time to get full specliastaion only part, beacuse hes being a theif as well, its more realistic that way, but feel free to cheat if you wish and assign other stars to it with shadow keeper.

[Charlie]

Thanks for replying but nope, still don't wash.

He can become equally proficient in a weapon that he's never even been near as one that he constantly uses....stupid. He progresses and gains all proficiencies as he should in thief levels although he devotes only a tiny fraction of his time to thieving as opposed to fighting....silly.
If he was a mage/thief is it therefore correct to assume that he can't cast/learn the same amount of spells as a mage because he can't devote as much time to magery as a mage would with the same stat's.....baffling.
What advantages does a fighter/thief actually gain in terms of the fighter side of things? Name only? He can wear a bit of armour....is that it?...so can a cleric that also gains the same weapon proficiencies and can cast spells.

Anyone else have thoughts on this or can perhaps enlighten me a little regarding this mis-named false class type.

Well, the main reason they did that was for playability. I mean, if they didn't have some shortcomings, why play anything else. Btw, for your scenario about a mage, yes, they are penalized too. No kits. Same with the thief. Not too sure about clerics, as I don't play kits and never really bothered to look them up. That's the one benefit you get from dual classing a human. They can go up as high as you want them. Multi-class are just too flighty to really specialize in anything. That's what the D&D books said a long time ago though. I believe with the 3rd edition, that has changed though. Sorry charlie, but Trix are for kids. LOL. You can use shadow cheater and fix im up though.

[Charlie]

Hi Tobbin.

Sorry I still fail to understand. I'm going up in two classes accepted. But I'm going up much slower in both classes than would usually be the case for either class singularly. I can happily go up to level X as a fighter gaining and assigning proficiencies as required, I can then dual to a thief and do the same. Why should a multi-class fighter/thief be penalized on the fighter side of things when he has devoted exactly the same amount of time and effort as his single classed counterpart to reach level X. Also, as I say, if you are penalizing his fighter side for being M/C then why isn't his thief side being penalized in the same fashion.

Sorry another couple of things I didn't get in your post. In the opening line you say it's done for playability and if they don't have shortcomings why play anything else? I just don't see that restricting a primary fighter ability increases playability...quite the opposite in fact.

Why play anything else?....Well lets remember that a fighter/thief is not some unbeatable killing machine and is considerably lower in both levels than would be the case if he were single class. In my BG1 game I'm escaping Candlekeep and my bloke is lev 6 F and level 6 T. I've only gained one extra proficiency in the game and it now appears that my bloke is a "real" fighter in name only so even if he was allowed to assign fighter proficiencies as the class suggests it will still be way passed games end before he is likely to gain another slot. Even if he could get to four point proficient as my original fighter did...well it seems to me that he's still not awesome and there's still tons of scope for playing other stuff.

They penalized the mage/thief. Are you saying there are no kits or they are just penalized the mage side full stop. If so, again, why and how? And you say they've done the same with a thief, how's that? My thief gets everything due to him I think. (Unlike his fighter side which doesn't get fighter weapon proficiencies which is a main point to being a fighter in the first place. Which again draws me back to why penalize one side of a M/C character as opposed to the other .)

Yes you're right Tobbin I could use (it's another keeper thing for BG1 I think) Shadowkeeper to adjust as necessary but why should anyone have to. It's not like you're asking for anything special, just to progress in levels as the class and its attributes dictate.

Cheers mate

[WOLFGIR]

Have to agree Charlie, best way is to dual instead to fighter then you can get thoose high points but in the Adod2 rules multiclassing is a bitch! Sorry but I do feel that... You can´t go as far as the rest and takes a long time and all that..

Charlie, I totally agree with everything that you've said. I wasn't supporting what I said, I was just saying that's why they did it. The main benefit that you get with multi-class is that you keep raising levels in both classes. With dual, you go up to a certain point and then stop. I think the whole system (dual vs multi) sucks and am glad that they changed it in 3rd edition. I'm only hopeful that this gets into Never Winter Knights as well. I originally wanted to get a Ranger/Mage combination when I started playing, but they didn't offer this as well. Somehow, I was able to get into a Ranger/Thief combination. I wish my computer hadn't crashed cause I really loved that character. The closest you can get to this legally, is what you are trying to play, the fighter/thief. And yes, you are right. There really isn't supposed to be any favoritism in either fighter or thief and it totally sucks that they have it in the game. And you are right that you shouldn't need a character editor to get what is supposed to be given to your normally. What really surprised me was that they didn't correct this in the patch. Well, I just wanted you to know that I wasn't on the side that said you should be penalized, cause I'm not. As for the playability thing, that may be a poor choice of words, what I meant to say was equalizing. If you had an advantage with multi-class, then why play single or dual? And as for raising levels, you raise levels at the same speed that a single or dual class does, it's just that you share experience points across the classes. You are in essence, running two or more characters at the same time with one person.

My own personal view on prof. points is that it is a pain in the ass and should be automatic. If i play the entire game with a staff I should be awesome with it and should not have to bother assigning points. If i then pick up a short sword i should suck with it, even with a high level fighter simple because he has never used it. I think it should become automated and your proficecny should be based upon something like number of times used, number of hits, time spent with weappon equipped etc. just my thoughts or wishes.

This should go for aalmost anything in the game..base it upon actual use and actual attempts/time