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Old 05-04-2008, 12:56 PM   #1
Grogs
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Default Role Ascension Advice

Hello everyone,

I've never posted here before, but I have lurked here a bit. Thanks to everyone who put together the maps, tips, and walkthroughs for this game that have made my life easier. I played the game through a couple of times 3-4 years ago and I've decided to dust it off and play again.

In my current game, some of my characters are reaching a point where they're feeling a bit stagnant. Stagnant in that several are beginning to reach those mid-levels where advancement becomes quite slow. This also seems to correspond to the time when they're reaching a moderate level in the guilds and there are lots of cool new abilities to train on. I should also mention that I'm playing the patched version of the game.

I started out with a fairly standard group: 2 warriors, 2 priests, 1 rogue, and 1 wizard. I leveled them up to ~10th and then reset adventures with the intent of allowing everyone to guild-hop to all the guilds on the 2nd go-round. Before I reset, I also swapped all of the characters to a new elite role so that they could start the new game as level 1's and join guilds in Valeia. Currently, I've just finished the temple and Shurugeon Castle and my character stats are:

Death: M Lizzord (War->Barb) Ranger 10 -> Samurai 8
Armageddon: M Gourk (War->Barb) Samurai 11
Disease: F Whiskah (Priest->Paladin) Monk 11
Famine: F Dwarf (Priest) Monk 11
War: M Ratling (Thief) Ranger 10 -> Ninja 8
Pestilence: F Omphaaz (Wizard->Warlock) Monk 5 -> Ranger 1 -> Warlock 10

The bits in parenthesis are the roles before resetting adventures, so they don't count against currently available roles. The characters that I'm pondering a role change for would be:

- Whiskah/Dwarf Monks. Both of these characters have completely filled out the Spirit spell group (~20 levels of priest/pally/monk each), so I'm not sure if they wouldn't be better served by switching to another class now, either to become better fighters or better casters. One will eventually become a Valkyrie, but that's a long way off.

- Gourk Samurai. I'm torn here. On one hand, I see the samurai as one of the best classes in the game. In the past, I think I always had 1-2 samurai when I beat Lord Cet. On the other, he's also managed to pick up every Sun spell available to him.

- Omphaaz warlock. I'm actually NOT ready to change her class right now, but it probably won't be long. Her spell book is a long way from being full, but there aren't too many more really useful spells left. When I get there would it be worthwhile to make her into a barbarian or something for a while to rack up on extra hp?

I welcome any suggestions you all have about what roles would be useful for these characters.
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Old 05-04-2008, 08:45 PM   #2
Shadow Stranger
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Default Re: Role Ascension Advice

I have never reset the adventures before so this is all new to me.

If all classes have a maximum 250,000 xp to gain a new level, that is equivalent to the xp needed for level 12 or 13 in each class. So the xp needed to gain an additional level in the existing class would give you around the first dozen levels in a new class. Changing classes is very worthwhile. I discussed the formulas on page 23 of the Best Tips section.

It is nice to max – out in every spellbook. Vine is a tough one because there is no second Elite role in this book, nothing for your Ranger to switch to. Normally I would go Priest -> Ranger, with the Priest specializing in Vine before his ascension.
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Old 05-04-2008, 11:01 PM   #3
Bungleau
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Default Re: Role Ascension Advice

Greetings, Grogs! May life in the Gael Serran prove profitable and enjoyable... for you and your party of destruction It's always nice to have a theme, I think

Now, as for your questions... there are no wrong choices, except *possibly* a party of all Oomphaz (since they can't wear Dragon Plate). And even then, you can still complete the game... you just have to get *creative*.

I usually don't worry about resetting adventures... even a party starting from scratch will approach godhood by the end of the game, if you've switched classes appropriately. As Shadow Stranger says, that one high level will account for 12-13 levels in another class.

I haven't seen your actual class having a dramatic impact on combat, but then again, I'm no Radek He's probably done a bit of analysis on the topic, if anyone has. I usually switch classes based on spells - once you've gotten the level 7 spells, you can switch to another class. Why? Because you can continue learning spells in that school, just at half your school and sorcery levels. Since the max level (before enlightened Zenmasters) is 12, you can learn up to level 6 after you've left the class.

I try to schedule certain classes for specific skills or traits. For example, I hold off on Ranger until I've reached level 5 in the fighter guild so I can learn fletchery. I try to switch warriors to barbarians as quickly as possible because they get no bonuses from being warriors, and at least get HP bonuses from being barbarians. I keep wizards until they learn their level 7 spells, and often have two wizards, one specializing in sun and the other in stone.

Stone is trickiest... you can't learn level 7 until you become a valkyrie, warlock, or zenmaster, and you can't *learn* stone to begin with unless you're a wizard or valk.

Usually, by the end of the game every character of mine has all spells in all schools... except maybe stone.

Keep us posted on how it goes!
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Old 05-05-2008, 09:10 PM   #4
Grogs
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Default Re: Role Ascension Advice

Thanks for the advice guys. I tend to like to get as many abilities as possible out of my characters, so that's a big reason I like to reset the adventures. The first 10 levels or so let me get my characters up to the point they could join all the guilds and take most roles. The rogue seems to get screwed the most since he can't even join a guild until the crypt is complete. I'll probably do without a rogue altogether and just go for a very early barbarian the next time I start a new game. BTW, The thing with the Stone spells is very odd and I do have to wonder if the programmers didn't originally intend for the bard to have them originally.

As for the character names, it's a Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse theme (expanded to 6). I've used it in many classic RPG's, like M&M 3-9, the Pool of Radiance series, Wasteland, and maybe even as far back as the Bard's Tale (my very first CRPG).

I've decided to hold off on any swaps until after I finish the Boogre caves (I seem to remember it takes a while to finish and a low level character would probably miss several training opportunities.) I'm leaning towards making one monk more of a martial character (ninja/sam) and the other more magical (Warlock) with perhaps a couple of quick stops in the middle to pick up a few class special abilities. I do admit that I'm a bit ADD with my characters and want to change their roles all the time.

I do have a few more general questions for anyone who feels inclined to answer:

1. Are there other 'bad' spots in the game where you can't go back to the guild for a while and train those characters in new roles?

2. It seems like a lot of the cooler classes get their special abilities after level 5 in the Bushi Dojo, which would be in BR. How far along is that quest (Darkened one) in the BR area? I don't want to hold off changing classes only to find out that the only thing left with my new classes is Cet's pyramid.

3. Both of my monks are using Shinwiki's Spear with a moderate (5-7) pole&staff skill. Would they do more damage in the long run switching to either Kung Fu or Swords?

Thanks (now I'm off to get Boogreized),

Grogs
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Old 05-06-2008, 01:06 AM   #5
Shadow Stranger
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Default Re: Role Ascension Advice

In theory the Create Portal and Teleport spells can get you to the door of any dungeon, from anywhere inside it. The Boogre Caves are the worst for being stuck in the dungeon with no escape. Role ascension is not too hard to arrange. As for regular guild training: to avoid wasting the oppurtunities to train, you will need to use the Call of Home spell.

(I care more about Iron Lung than the Dojo traits and skills myself.)


Guild hopping has been described in these forums elsewhere, it is also called "cancelled ascension". This might be easier than any other path to getting guild memberships.

There is at least one dungeon between the Darkened One and the Pyramid.

I perceive the game as being biased in favor of Swords at the expense of other melee weapons. You can if you are adventurous create your own weapons, see previous posts in this forum
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Old 05-08-2008, 06:33 AM   #6
bsftcs
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Default Re: Role Ascension Advice

Welcome to the boards.
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Old 05-09-2008, 09:52 AM   #7
Grogs
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Default Re: Role Ascension Advice

Thanks for the welcome, bsftcs. I'm actually reading through the 'Stackman' series as I'm playing the game. They probably make one of the best walkthroughs out there. And thanks for your advice as well, Shadow Stranger.

I did decide to wait until after the Boogre caves to make any changes though. Or I should say that I decided that and realized I had just picked up the Assassin's Dagger from Scanthril. Since the rogue->ninja->assassin path seems like a no-brainer to me, I went ahead and switched him over so he could start learning dark spells. I got him to 6th level assassin before we went in the caves. I tried using the sleeping sentry (~2500 xp) from the Ninja quest to gain some of the levels, but it seems rather inconsistent and I had to be careful not to actually get promoted.

In the end, I got War to 6th level assassin before we went into the Boogre caves, and I'm glad we did. By the time we exited into Doshi Gin's grove, he was 8th level with a promotion to 9th pending. I suppose I could have put off fighting the scorpion in the pit until after I had exited and trained, but it just didn't seem like a big deal. Speaking of Doshi, I shamelessly took advantage of Dr. Pick's tip for using the lampand got Arms of Argus for each character as well as a couple of swords/chains/amulets from the Jinni.

Waiting on the other 3 characters payed off though. I finished the Shrew Chisi quest for the Dojo and discovered that both Spirit Shield and Tiger Strike were available at guild level 4, not at level 5. It is a shame my Oomphaz warlock was already a monk, though. He could really benefit from Spirit Shield. A few thousand xp got each character a level in their old class so they could buy these traits, and then I changed classes. I've decided to change classes as follows:


Armageddon: (Gourk Samurai) -> ranger

I already got fletching for him and once he has finished vine magic, I'll probably go -> paladin -> ninja to pick up spirit and moon magic.

Disease: (Whiskah Monk) -> Samurai

I plan to go Warlock -> Valkyrie with her once she has all of the Sun spells. Since I won't want to reclass her once she becomes a Valkyrie, I want to go Warlock first. That way she'll have all 6 spell groups when she becomes a Valkyrie. Since she has the Spirit Shield trait now and her primary weapon is still a staff, the drop in fighting abilities when she hits Warlock shouldn't be too bad.

Famine: (Dwarf Monk) -> Ninja

I'm not sure where I'll go with her after Ninja, but I might give bard a try since I've never had one before and that class gets the moon/fiend spells.


BTW, now that I have fletchery, I've realized I have nothing good to fletch. I do have some dragon arrows, but nobody who can enchant/bless them right now (they just don't show up in the available items list.) Does anyone know which combinations work on Dragon arrows?

Thanks,

Grogs
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Old 05-09-2008, 03:10 PM   #8
Bungleau
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Default Re: Role Ascension Advice

Kewl! Sounds like you're having some fun there, Grogs!

Dragon Arrows can be enchanted nicely. I usually enchant for damage, and go as high as I can... level 11, I think it is.

You need to get someone to level 3 in the Temple to get the Cabalist skill that lets you learn enchantment. Then raise your enchant level when you train up. You may need to go past the first level before you can enchant a dragon arrow, but a Dragon Arrow +11 damage is worth something like a million GP... *very* worth it!

You can also fletch *any* magic arrows. They bring nice prices at the guilds...
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