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Old 04-29-2001, 10:27 AM   #11
Melusine
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Moni, thanks for that post, my point exactly!
And Dreamer, jammergenoeg blijkt dat niet echt uit onze geschiedenis ... maar leuk om over te na te denken

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Old 04-29-2001, 10:28 AM   #12
Lord of Alcohol
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LadyRae, I really cant see what your so pissed about. Theres really nothing THAT bad there. Actually a little tamer than I thought it would be. Lighten up eh?
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Old 04-29-2001, 10:29 AM   #13
Memnoch
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LadyRae, I'm sorry if there was anything in the Testosterone thread that made you feel unwelcome, I'm sure it wasn't the intention of the posters on that thread. There are a couple of off-color sexist jokes from people for who English is not a first language, and I agree that's not acceptable and could offend, even though I'm positive, knowing the people involved that the intent was not malicious at all - they were probably "hamming it up". It's certainly not representative of everyday behaviour from male posters in that thread, who are always very courteous and respectful of others.

Other than that it's mostly just about sports and beer and stuff like that, unless I've missed something?

I also couldn't see any flames from people on your or Reeka's Ladies Guild thread? I thought the tone and banter was very friendly throughout. In fact, the only flame I can see is yours up above.

Losing your cool and swearing your head off at people isn't the best way to resolve things. In a less mature place, such as the forum you mention above, they would've invited flames back and the root cause of the problem would've been buried under all the flaming and everyone would've lost and nothing would've been resolved.

I'm certain that no-one here would deny you guys the right to form your guild, or any guild, male or female, for that matter. We want this to be a comfortable place for everyone!

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[This message has been edited by Memnoch (edited 04-29-2001).]
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Old 04-29-2001, 10:42 AM   #14
Moiraine
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Guys, male guys, I can understand why LadyRae got angry. Please listen. It is very true that some professions still hold a good many more men than women. Mine is, I am a computer engineer. And it is also very true that, as a result, as a woman working in such a profession, you find yourselves living in a male's world. More so if you happen to play computer games. It's my case. And when you hear these little jokes you made on the incriminated thread, again and again and again every day, sometimes it grates on your nerves, because it bites a little self-confidence out of you. The point is, these jokes weren't intended to be sexist BECAUSE THEY CALLED FOR A SIMILAR BANTERING FROM US WOMEN.

But put yourself in LadyRae's shoes for just one moment. Imagine : you are at work, and outnumbered 10 to 1 (yes, this is my case), your manager is a woman, your manager's manager is a woman (yes, in the 21th century, they still choose a woman as a manager rather than a man !), 9 out of 10 of your colleagues are women, and everyday at the coffee machine you are surrounded by women bantering among themselves with all the same little jokes, every day, every day. You see ? They are NOT intended to make you feel bad, but they wear you down, a little every day. And when you are so badly outnumbered, sometimes it is hard to banter back ...

Imagine further - you had one of these days at work, your colleague got a promotion and you didn't, although you are every bit as competent as she is (but you are a male) - you come home, wanting to put all that behind, light your computer ... and you find yourself in the middle of the same bad jokes. Again. So you get mad ! And everybody around says "Hey ! What is wrong with him today ? What I said was not THAT bad !". No, it was not THAT bad. But you come on top of a HEAP of the same 'not that bad' stuff.

Now, she got mad at YOU guys because she thought YOU could understand - generally, we don't even bother to get mad, because when we do, it gets worse - 9 men out of 10 persons around, so statistically around 3 of the 9 men start saying that, sure, we can't expect women to bear the same stress amount than men, sure.

Please try to understand please.

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Old 04-29-2001, 10:51 AM   #15
Melusine
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Moiraine, that was a very well phrased post, and I can only say that I wish LadyRae had picked her words as carefully as you have. Thank you for replying, as I think what you say is very true. However, while I have had less pleasant experiences with men, I am not in the least offended by the concerned threads. Whereas I would be offended by truly rude/sexist comments from people I do not know, these were slightly off-colour remarks by board members that I know and trust. Therefore, I am alright with it. It *does* matter to me whether the jokes/comments are meant to be serious or not, and in this case they clearly were not. I really think that LadyRae's clourful language is equally offensive to most people, especially to nativespeakers (Dutch people use a lot more English swearwords than the English themselves do ). Anyway LadyRae, I hope you will reconsider the last of your post ("I'm outta here") as it is not worth it, and would be a shame.

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Old 04-29-2001, 12:17 PM   #16
Sazerac
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Well, I will say that after having read both threads through (and the Ladies' Guild thread as well) that I found nothing overtly inflammatory on the "Testasterone thread" or the "Ladies Guild thread". What I did find is a lot of rather sophomoric behavior. (Sorry, my opinion). And, you're right, the Testasterone thread has degenerated (or risen, I should say?) into rugby-talk, which, since I'm in a country that doesn't follow rugby matches, I am not at all interested in.

LadyRae, I am deeply sorry that your feelings were hurt, and I do hope you choose to remain here. The Moon's Hope Inn is your baby, after all, and one of the most popular threads here in GD.

On the Ladies Guild (or Men's Guild, or Kid's Guild, or Old Hippies with Long Beards Still Into Gaming guild)...I'm not sure what this is all about. We're a community here, all. Every one of us. Such guilds do no more than divide us. Just for curiosity, what are the goals of the Ladies' Guild? What do you hope to accomplish by having a guild that no men may join or post to? If there is a legitimate reason, that's fine, but what I see in it is nothing more than someone drawing a line in the dirt and saying, "I dast ye to cross it! No boyz (girlz, kiddz, old hippiez) allowed!" I'd truly hate to see all of us breaking up into such groups. And then we wonder why flaming occurs?

In the workforce, I believe such specialty organizations are necessary. The Women's Business Leaders Association, along with various ethnic business leaders associations, have long existed to help members of minority groups gain a foothold in an enterprise world that is stacked against them. I am in full support of all such organizations.

But I have seen no "squelching" of anyone on this board by the nature of race, gender, creed, or other type...other than a preponderance of "BG" threads. Should I start a guild of "Non Baldur's Gate players...no BG player may join?" See how ridiculous it is? This is a FUN place. In Cyberspace, where race, gender, creed, etc. are supposed to be invisible and non-binding.

But what do I know. I'm just a jaded old male gaming hippie.

Just my opinion.

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Old 04-29-2001, 12:23 PM   #17
Sazerac
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Let me also say one thing more...every person on this board, regardless of any personal characteristics, is important to this board as a community...and important to me as a friend or a potential friend.

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Old 04-29-2001, 12:49 PM   #18
RudeDawg
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OK, This is what I wanted to read first thing in the morning...

we love you, LadyRae!

don't be mad...



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Old 04-29-2001, 01:10 PM   #19
The.Relic
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Melusine, I want you and everyone on the board to know that LadyRae and I have talked about the 'sugary-sickening love-talk' and because we do care about how other people feel on the board feel about it, we both decided to stop role playing a romance here. If anyone who we have unintentionally offended has visited the Inn, they will notice that LadyRae and I have not been romancing since the board re-opened.
Moiraine, I do want to thank you for supporting LadyRae's position and trying to word it in a way that would hopefully stimulate thought from the womans standpoint.
I am a man, and apparently am one of the few that found the need of the 'testosterone' commentators to invade the 'lady's guild' thread and make what I also felt were inaproppriate comments. I also feel that while it may be true that many of the statements in the 'testosterone' thread were intended as pure fun and jokes by the posters, that they were still disrespectful and demeaning irregardless. Just as many people were stronly offended by the romance that LadyRae and I were involved in at the Inn. No LadyRae and I had no intention of hurting or offending anyone, but the truth of the matter is, that we anadvertantly did, and we put a stop to it.
Smitten by LadyRae

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Old 04-29-2001, 01:13 PM   #20
Ladyzekke
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Personally I found no offense in the Men's Thread. Guys are guys and a few barefoot and pregnant jokes are far from being racist. I actually am getting a kick out of reading their thread. Of course, I also respect everyone's different opinions on the matter, as we are all different people from different walks of life.

Just saying it doesn't bother ME.

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