ATF vs. FBI - ding! ding!

[Timber Loftis]

Some conservative members of this board, who we all love dearly of course, often will attack certain government sectors for being bloated and inefficient. While I agree wholeheartedly, I also find lots of bloated bureaucracy in some of our most near and dear protector-agencies. Now, it may not be wise, certainly not fashionable, to speak out against foreign and domestic defense spending nowadays, but I find that current terrorist threats are often being used as an excuse to dump more money into bloated and inefficient agencies.

While not on point at defending my stance, this NYTimes article shows a certain in-fighting among agencies that is rather annoying - and which President Bush's new homeland security measures may either alleviate or make worse, depending on whose ass Congress decides to stick its collective thumb up. You'll note one of the ATF spokespeople intimates shock regarding the FBI statements. This is horse puckey. The reason the FBI and ATF are having it out, other than years of disagreement, is that the NSA and ATF recently spilled their guts regarding their view that FBI secret-keeping and turf-protection may well have kept our government from learning about Sept 11 beforehand. (Two NSA agents published a book on it recently). This is referenced at the butt-end of the article.

Anyway, Cespenar says to ENJOY:

F.B.I. Attacks Firearm Agency In Draft Report
By ERIC LICHTBLAU

WASHINGTON, Nov. 11 — The F.B.I. has initiated an unusual behind-the-scenes attack on another law enforcement agency, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, as part of an effort to protect its turf and responsibility for domestic security, law enforcement officials said today.

An internal F.B.I. draft full of criticisms of the firearms agency has circulated in the last week among law enforcement officials. Some of those officials say the draft is part of an effort by the bureau to head off a plan to move the firearms operations from the Treasury Department to the Justice Department in a broad reorganization of domestic security.

Some officials of the F.B.I., which is under the Justice Department, said such a plan could undermine its authority to investigate domestic terrorism. One official said the draft did not represent the bureau's views.

The unsigned report accuses counterparts at the firearms agency of poor training for agents, dangerous handling of explosives at crime scenes and efforts to control cases outside its jurisdiction. The report cites examples from the recent sniper investigation, terrorism inquiries, the Salt Lake City Olympics and other prominent cases pursued by both agencies.

"Due to the A.T.F.'s lack of strategic vision and sole jurisdiction mission," the report says, "they have `crept' into areas beyond their mandate."

Agents from the firearms agency who have seen the document said that they were outraged and that the accusations were unfounded.

"I'm appalled at the shots the F.B.I. is taking at us," said Art Gordon, a 27-year veteran at the agency and its representative to the Federal Law Enforcement Officers Association.

A spokesman for the agency, Tom Hill, said that its officials had seen the report but that because they were uncertain who wrote it or whether it reflected current views, "we don't know whether it has any credence."

Mr. Hill and other employees at the agency acknowledged that circulating the report could harm its relations with the F.B.I. as law enforcement agencies were trying to work more closely.

An F.B.I. official declined to comment on the specific criticisms in the report and said it was merely "an early draft." The official said the draft "wasn't meant for dissemination."

The two agencies have historically had a testy relationship, reaching its nadir, perhaps, after they responded to the Branch Davidian compound near Waco, Tex., in 1993. Publicly, relations appeared to have warmed in the last few years, with the agencies praising each other's cooperation in the sniper investigation.

But possible reorganization plans for the firearms agency appear to have revived tensions.

Proposals in Congress for a Homeland Defense Department do not address reorganization. Officials in the Bush administration and on Capitol Hill said they had reached an agreement that would move the firearms agency's law enforcement functions related to explosives, firearms and arson to the Justice Department.

Proponents regard those as traditional law enforcement functions more closely aligned with the Justice Department's other responsibilities than the Treasury Department. Other functions, including regulating alcohol and tobacco, would remain at the Treasury Department.

Law enforcement officials said a formal amendment might be offered in the Senate on the proposed reorganization in a few days.

F.B.I. officials would not say who wrote the report or for what purpose. An official not associated with either agency who has reviewed the draft said he was convinced from its detail and authoritative tone that a fairly senior official at headquarters here had most likely written it. The official characterized the report as a seemingly "paranoid" attack from an agency under intense criticism since the Sept. 11 attacks and trying to protect its turf.

The report was provided to The New York Times by an official who objected to the Federal Bureau of Investigation attack on the firearms agency as unfair and unjustified.

F.B.I. Attacks Firearm Agency In Draft Report
(Page 2 of 2)

The undated paper says that "the F.B.I. is not opposed" to the transfer of functions to the Justice Department. According to the report, the bureau is concerned that the move would expand the authority of the firearms agency "quite dramatically" into domestic terrorism, where the bureau has the lead role. Some officials, however, said that the F.B.I. was misreading the plan and that the firearms role would remain unchanged.

The bureau, which has a broad mandate to investigate crime and terrorism, and the firearms agency, with a much narrower role involving explosives and weapons, have often worked side by side in inquiries like the Oklahoma City bombing, the Unabom case and the sniper rampage.

The F.B.I., with nearly 13,000 criminal investigators, dwarfs the A.T.F., with 3,900, according to federal data.

Even so, the paper indicates that some bureau officials believe that firearms agents have sought to undermine their authority and have sometimes endangered bureau agents and the public. The two-section 11-page report contrasts the "shortcomings" of the firearms agency against what the bureau says is its proven ability to handle better even domestic terrorism operations that involve explosives and firearms.

For instance, in an arrest in Nashville of a suspected white supremacist tied to threatening a synagogue with explosives this year, the report said the firearms agency had used "unsafe practices" to store high explosives and live pipe bombs at the local police department. The bureau supervisor in Nashville "had to remove F.B.I. personnel from the area" as a result, the report said.

The report also contends that the firearms agency "has demonstrated its disregard" for bomb technicians' safety in such situations "by making it a practice to handle and store pipe bombs as if they were not bombs."

The report said that the firearms agency used lesser standards for handling explosives and that "these differences in operational philosophy translate to dangerous situations."

"To this day, A.T.F. has not been able to get all of its bomb technicians to comply with the certification standards that have been set," the report said. As a result, it added, the agency "had to send some personnel home from the Olympics who were not certified."

Law enforcement officials said tensions became particularly heated at the Sept. 11 attack on the Pentagon, where firearms investigators complained that they were shut out of the inquiry and ignored by the F.B.I. Firearms investigators questioned whether bureau investigators had the expertise to undertake the extensive evidence gathering, law enforcement officials said.

An aide to Senator Charles E. Grassley, the Iowa Republican who has criticized the F.B.I. as running roughshod over other agencies, said the report and feud could hurt the bureau on Capitol Hill.

"This," the aide said, "is a perfect example of the kind of Pac-Man mentality that the F.B.I. has."

[ 11-12-2002, 10:01 AM: Message edited by: Timber Loftis ]

[Morgeruat]

kind of off topic, but a coworker of mine has a friend in the FBI and she said that they're bunglers, and screw things up, where-as the ATF is really thorough and professional.

I also wondered at first why they groups alcohol tobacco and firearms together in one government agency, but then realized that with alcohol, tobacco and firearms, you're bound to have a good time...

Morgie [img]smile.gif[/img] the ATF haven't been saddled with a lot of the PC BS that the FBI has had to deal with, and so are able to keep only the highly talented people and have an easier time getting rid of waste products. TheFBI has become a real cesspool of civil servant types.

TL, you may be shocked but Im not for the Home Land management organization. They need to get rid of the Government workers Union so that they can fire the existing incompetants and tie raises and promotions into real performance. Bush would actually like to do this too but the Union is too strong so he is trying to create this agency as a special agency that will have no government worker unions to deal with...so, in theory the typical lazy ass civil servant of sterotype fame can be gotten rid of while true performers can be rewarded.

[ 11-12-2002, 01:32 PM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

[Morgeruat]

Ahh, thanx for clearing it up for me Magik

[Attalus]

Also to add that the reason that the Homeland Security Act , which theoretically should prevent this kind of bureaucratic infighting, has to date bee blocked by the Dems because of union issues. FBI, known as Fart, Belch, and Itch by the Texas Rangers.

[Timber Loftis]

Agreed, Attalus. I posted regarding that embarrassment on the "Why Unions Suck" thread I started. There is a lot to complain about with homeland security - chiefly, that there will be very little oversight of a very powerful agency. That said, I cannot fathom why the Dems jumped on the union issues. What petty puppets it makes them appear to be.