A short discussion on wicca and christianity

[Sir Kenyth]

Correct me if I'm wrong. I find many who are in Wicca are there because they have had a past bad experience with a christian religion. The old school christians are into this scare tactic that drives away as many or more than it attracts. Overzealousness is as much a problem as anything. I do not agree with this and beleive it is time for a change. A time to think what it truely means to have a christian attitude. Spiritual leaders need to focus less on earrings, necklaces, haircuts, and other irrelevancies and more on spiritual growth. I have had my own experiences with this. Thankfully, it hasn't soured my outlook. Wicca provides a spiritual outlet with less overbearing rules. I cannot blame some for liking it for this reason. I cannot say I find Wicca appealing myself though. It has a simplistic, neutral "shaman" feel to it that just doesn't feel right to me. It doesn't feel "evil" (like the overzealous portray), it feels like a spiritual dead end. I know it's hard to argue when the bible is so hard to comprehend. Everyone seems to have their own idea on what it means. The bible is an ancient text. Written by simple people of simple minds. It has also been translated and re-translated innumerable times. I think it's safe to say that it's accuracy has decreased significantly. It's meaning has clouded somewhat. You may not be able to take it word for word, but it still contains good deal of wisdom and spiritual guidance. As long as the bible isn't used as a weapon it has great value. Even if you're not christian it is still one of the oldest history books around. Try reading it a bit, you don't have to memorize verses and fling them like darts at people to appreciate it. As for those who have had a bad experience with a christian church. Don't give up on the religion just because you disagree with the peoples methods. There are quite a few good modernized churches which contain a lot less judgement and a lot more of what christianity is supposed to be. The "Vineyard" is a good example of this, and I highly recommend it. Just give a try if you're interested. I mean, I'm a christian and I looked into Wicca. I'm sure I'll get a lot of debate about this and I've certainly tried my best not to be offensive or belittling to Wiccans. I've only tried to express my veiwpoint and hopefully been at least informative to Christians and Wiccans alike.

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The true secret to happiness is not having what you want, it's wanting what you have!

[Tobbin]

Well, I wrote that I was Wiccan/Catholic, because I don't totally believe in either one. I believe that they are both MAINLY right though. To me, the two overlap and lend credence to each other. I believe in GOD overall, but believe that there are manifestations (spirits) that he created to oversee certain parts of creation (as a part of creation). I think that the old texts became confused on this and tried to correct it in a way that only they could understand. Hence the split in religions.

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Protectorate of the OHF
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Obviously the concept that a non-christian can have a powerful religious expirience is unsettling to some christians.

Although I consider myself a witch or a shaman, I must testify that I embrace the teachings of christ, budda, and many other wise-folk through out the ages. Of course I question all teachings so they do not conflict with the wiccan rede and that they dont conflict with my conscious. I actually percieve Jesus Christ as a master witch, a wise person and a healer, with a clear inner-connection to the spiritual source.

It could be offensive to some, to have their spiritual path considered "a deadend" Anyone who truly explores their own spiritual nature, regardless of religion, may find personal challenges and rewards, but wont find a deadend.

[Tobbin]

I am a healer. Oftentimes I will find people that are dead set in their beliefs. And that is ok. After all, our beliefs make us who we are. I try to educate people rather than to force religion unto them. I don't believe there are truly any dead ends. As long as you find satisfaction and are enriched, more power to you. Like I was saying, I really don't believe there is 1 ULTIMATE answer. I think that a combination of factors come into play. Common sense and an attempt at a greater understanding go a long way.

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Protectorate of the OHF
Death Waits 4 U ALL

When I think of zealots, im thinking of Protoss zealots!

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All your base are belong to us! How Are you gentlemen?

The Spaminyte Emperor
Fish?
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Welcome to your doom!!!
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Official villain/demon of IW!

[HisDivineShadow]

Hi! Well, I must say that I find the statement that Wicca is a spiritual "dead end" somewhat illogical (if not a bit offensive). Many modern philosophers would find Wicca a good path. Thoreau, for example. Wicca is a very flexible religion, but it focuses (to me) mainly on unity with the universe, or greater cosmic whole through unity with nature and truth. It is somewhat understandable that Wicca may SEEM like a "dead end" as it focuses on the development of the individual under mainly his own power, wheras Christianity does so with the aid of God. However, it parallels with The Middle Way of Buddhism in the "neutral" sense.
One must understand that spiritual fulfillment is different and varied. The "neutral" sense may SEEM dead, but let me assure you that I have followed the path of neutrality, and I have come to a sense of great contentment. I lack a strong sense of desire and greed, hate or happiness, but I feel a great sense of CONTENTMENT. In the extremities of my moods, I am happy and feel good.
I know of one buddhist passage that was quite amusing... "A high official once went to a monk seeking advice on the afterlife. He asked him, 'where will you go when you die?' The monk shrugged, 'I don't know.' The official was shocked, 'What kind of enlightened monk are you??? How can you NOT know where you go after you die???' The monk shrugged again and walked off, saying, 'I do not know because I have not died yet.'"
Each of us has different goals in life. Generally it is enlightenment, happiness, wealth, love, etc. Christianity (at least, the "true" Christianity that I see as being more to the heart of the matter. Evangelism seems so focused on life after death now) teaches how to have universal love to all bretheren. Wicca teaches the processes of earth and life, and the philosophical cycle of nature. From this, we learn to nurture and care for earth and each other by the way we care for earth. We are taught to "do no harm" (and in my opinion that includes changing other people's beliefs. It's very damaging, really). Learning how to be a good Wiccan, really, is learning how to be a mother, how to be a sage, how to be a creator, and how to be an honorable spiritual warrior. (Yes, even males must learn to be a mother. What being is more sacred, really?). Wicca is about improvement of the self, and the outcome for each person may be different, whether people will be healers or creators or defenders or leaders.
If anyone wants to chat, my AIM screen name is Wolfeblaze and I like stuff. I'm 17 and I really love philosophy and plants. ^_^
Nice meeting you all.

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"I am His most Divine Shadow."

[Sir Kenyth]

Don't be offended by my opinion. It's just what it is, my opinion. I explain how things feel to me. That's the way you learn. You present your opinion, and those who dissent discuss it with you. I do not like "The neutral path". It seems to accomplish little in the end. When you don't believe in something, you believe in nothing. This is not to say that Wicca is not something. To me, it feels like believing in nothing of great worth. It's too neutral and therefore seems somewhat wishy-washy. I am christian and I believe in taking care of the planet. I have hunted and yet I don't kill those animals that I would not use. I don't believe in the senseless destruction of things without a purpose. These seem like things people should just inherently know. I don't associate these beliefs with a Wiccan point of view as much as common sense. We don't have to move backward and become Shaman to gain common sense. Instead of moving backward to an even more ancient religion, let's move forward and use the knowledge we have fought for. Improved enlightenment and greater acheivement should be the goal. These things are not granted easily though. Work is required and an active hand needed. It can't be acheived by the neutral path of watching the world go by. Our country was founded on christianity and seems to have flourished well.

[Tobbin]

Originally posted by Sir Kenyth: Don't be offended by my opinion. It's just what it is, my opinion. I explain how things feel to me. That's the way you learn. You present your opinion, and those who dissent discuss it with you. I do not like "The neutral path". It seems to accomplish little in the end. When you don't believe in something, you believe in nothing. This is not to say that Wicca is not something. To me, it feels like believing in nothing of great worth. It's too neutral and therefore seems somewhat wishy-washy. I am christian and I believe in taking care of the planet. I have hunted and yet I don't kill those animals that I would not use. I don't believe in the senseless destruction of things without a purpose. These seem like things people should just inherently know. I don't associate these beliefs with a Wiccan point of view as much as common sense. We don't have to move backward and become Shaman to gain common sense. Instead of moving backward to an even more ancient religion, let's move forward and use the knowledge we have fought for. Improved enlightenment and greater acheivement should be the goal. These things are not granted easily though. Work is required and an active hand needed. It can't be acheived by the neutral path of watching the world go by. Our country was founded on christianity and seems to have flourished well.

You don't sound like you know a great deal about being Wiccan. Besides, you just helped prove my point. If you take Christianity and look at it by itself, there are several holes, just as if you take Wiccan/Pagan aside and view it by itself. I have found contentment from a combination of both. Overlapping the two to make a more acceptable and believable system. This also deals to common sense. Also, just because something is old/ancient/outdated does not mean that it has no relevance. You are denying your heritage by turning your back on your ancestors. Good or not, they were around a lot longer than Christianity.



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Protectorate of the OHF
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[Kaz]

First off, I am an atheist. Christianity has resulted in a high amount of atrocities in the past, from the crusades to the Thirty years war to WWII. I personally would not count the religion Wicca as "looking backward." I would not count any religion as "looking backward" because there are ways to make any religion into a stiff dead end that is only set on ritual and into a meaningful, highly spiritual and contenting way of life. Just my 2c

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Kazara

Waitress at Cloudy's Cafe

[Tobbin]

Originally posted by Kaz: First off, I am an atheist. Christianity has resulted in a high amount of atrocities in the past, from the crusades to the Thirty years war to WWII. I personally would not count the religion Wicca as "looking backward." I would not count any religion as "looking backward" because there are ways to make any religion into a stiff dead end that is only set on ritual and into a meaningful, highly spiritual and contenting way of life. Just my 2c

Very straight-forward and to the point. Very well said.



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Protectorate of the OHF
Death Waits 4 U ALL