a friend has a problem

[WillowIX]

The first thought that comes in to mind is "leave the *insert bad word*". BUT does she still love him? And if she does, is she willing to work it out knowing that this can happen again? They could try professional councelling. I agree with the above posts that securing her income is a valid point! That way she will have something to fall back on.

[img]graemlins/offtopic.gif[/img] Mouse, where is that switch located? I wonder.. Hmmm, no it couldn´t be.. [img]graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

[Ronn_Bman]

Revruby, your friend knows what she is and is not willing to accept in a relationship. She wants someone else to confirm her fears/plans, but it sounds like she has all the evidence she needs to act.

[Aelia Jusa]

Timber you seem to be of the opinion that anyone who is truly serious about committing suicide should just go do it and shut up about it so no one is put through any needless bother. I think you are under some misconceptions about people who are suicidal. First, humans (and I think, all humans) share the trait of having an urge to live. Even those who don't want to have to anymore, who consider the ultimate final step of suicide, try to hang onto life as long as possible. This includes talking to their friends, or, if they can't, to counsellors and other helpful organisations. Most want someone to be able to talk them out of it. If someone feels suicidal, but they ultimately decide not to, that doesn't mean they weren't sincere about their suicidal feelings, or that they had some ulterior motive and suckered people into giving them attention.

Second, people who go to extremes to get attention have something wrong with them. As as I said before, people who are healthy and happy don't need to do this. So whether their problem is that they're suicidal or not, they need help. There's not some perfectly healthy - on the brink of suicide no turning back dichotomy, and anyone who attempts/talks about suicide but doesn't actually do it is just some trouble maker - they have a problem too! I think you're coming at it from the perspective of complete rationality - this is wrong. Anyone in such a state, anyone suffering from any mental disorder is not rational, and their behaviour cannot be judged from a position of being so. If you want attention you get it in certain ways - people who are mentally damaged get it from other, less rational, and yes, more inconvenient for you, ways.

Third, if a suicide attempt isn't successful, this does not imply they were insincere. Taking a bottle of pills would be my first port of call if I were ever in such a desperate state to attempt suicide - I don't have a gun, I don't know how to slit my wrists properly and frankly even if I did, why would I want to inflict so much pain on myself if the end result was going to be the same? Now if someone is found before the pills have worked what does this mean? They have another chance - many people try suicide again (often successfully). Some people receive the necessary support and treatment that they don't. Sometimes a failed suicide attempt is the first a family knows that their relative is in trouble, sometimes they've mentioned it and the reason they're found in time is that their family was on the alert. What it doesn't mean is that their attempt was a mean trick to get their family to shower them with attention.

And fourth, what you did as a youngster is all well and good. But reasonably meaningless if you're talking about what people, as a general rule, do. I would have thought you would realise the folly of judging everyone else's behaviour that is different from your own as wrong or having sinister motives. I don't know what you were thinking when you considered and talked about suicide, and I wouldn't even begin to try. Yet you feel confident that you know exactly what other people feel and want when they do.

Also sorry RevRuby for going offtopic. Won't do it again [img]smile.gif[/img]

[arion windrider]

boy rev, this topic is off course... dang, well i hope your friend will heed your advise and do things to protect herself...

[Timber Loftis]

Originally posted by Aelia Jusa: Timber you seem to be of the opinion that anyone who is truly serious about committing suicide should just go do it and shut up about it so no one is put through any needless bother

Well, A.J., I think there is a wee bit of bile towards my opinion and how I came about it evident in your post. But, This first sentence is NOT how I feel (most days, anyway), and I must point that out. I respect your opinion, and the opinion of people who work with this stuff everyday - which I don't.

I did not base my assumptions on my experiences alone. I mentioned friends I knew along the way - much too many, I'll say - who threatened, attempted, and/or succeeded. They are my points of reference as well.

Sorry to continue on this [img]graemlins/offtopic.gif[/img] . I only wish you respected my opinion the way I respect yours. Please PM me if you desire any further discussion on this "off" topic.

[Mouse]

Ok folks, we seem to have strayed off topic here. If someone wants to start a new thread on the best way to deal with potential suicides, then feel free to do so. I would ask that we stick to the topic from now on and concentrate on giving revruby the best advice we can to help her cope with this dilemma.

[Timber Loftis]

Sorry, Mouse. If I could take back my original post that started this, I would.

I think the relevant points to date regarding RevRuby's friend are:
1. Consider financial security. Start her own checking account. Figure out a way to keep him away from her money.
(I'll note that this will force other issues for certain, as the guy certainly won't be pleased)
2. Address the issue of likely current or future infidelity with the guy.
3. Consider a marriage counselor. Seek free assistance on this if possible.
4. Seek a lawyer's advice. (I'll say I do NOT advise this course at this point. It's too expensive and legal issues currently present are best addressed through common sense. It simply won't help right now.)
5. RevRuby should console and try to approach her friend regarding suicide. If it is one recourse being considered, she should seek counseling ASAP.

I'm sure there were other suggestions I missed - feel free to add to my list.

[Bungleau]

A couple of thoughts...

... setting up her own bank account is not repaying a betrayal of trust with another. It is a sane, logical, and rational move that negates possible future negative scenarios.

... if there are any major financial moves underway right now (house, car, etc.), put them on hold. This is not the time to get that mortgage, not until some of this can be ironed out.

... marital counseling is a must at this point. Whether from a civil agency or a religious one, discussion of what's going on and what the future will hold is critical. And she needs to participate without "happy ears" on.

... she should also make sure she knows where the bills and recent statements are for any accounts. Nothing's more exciting than discovering that a $10,000 Visa bill has been ignored for so long that Visa is sending Guido and Luigi to discuss repayment (no ethnic offenses intended).

... pay extra attention to this year's tax forms to look for any inconsistencies. Having the IRS mad at you has never made anyone's day...

Perhaps I sound paranoid, but from the brief description, there does not appear to be a whole lot of trust justified at the moment, and the chess player in me looks several moves ahead, considering all possible alternatives.

Good luck.

*B*

[Cloudbringer]

Something that I think got missed in all this... Rev's friend has a child. Securing her income so she can pay bills is not just for her own sake here! She has the little one to think of as well! If her husband goes off and spends money they need for daily bills and she ends up in debt and legal trouble, how can she support her baby or herself?

I do recommend the counseling, RevRuby. I'd suggest that she find a low cost or free counseling center or church and sit down with someone and spell out what she feels her problems are. If her husband will go too, great! If not, at least she's getting help from someone who does this for a living and might be able to give her some good advice, while you and others give her the emotional support a good friend is always there for. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Bungleau]

Actually, Cloudy, I was thinking that when I made separate finances my first point of suggestion. I just left that part out when I rewrote it for the third time to be less inflammatory [img]smile.gif[/img]

Making decisions for yourself is one thing; making decisions for yourself and a young child is something else entirely, and rules out many options.

Moving back with mom or dad, as humbling as it might be, might be a worthwhile consideration. Of course, that opens up a whole different discussion where mom or dad may feel forced to take sides, and they will generally side with their offspring.

There are no good answers. Only choices that need to be made. Godspeed.

*B*