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Old 05-31-2002, 04:07 PM   #31
MagiK
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Quote:
Originally posted by Moni:
There are "legal" restrictions, yes but that doesn't mean they can't be bypassed to moniter people. Believe me, I know firsthand.
As far as using the information they get in order to prosecute said monitered person...I doubt that they could get away with it in a court of law if said monitered person has the cash to buy the "right" lawyer or pay off the "right" people but there's nothing said or written that can keep anyone from buying some judges or otherwise "influencing" their opinions behind closed doors.
More oft than not, local law enforcement and private citizens are used to obtain info but if there is a need for military equipment, it can be obtained if necessary...through the "right" people.
Hi Moni, I don't know you well, only that I know we are usually on opposite sides of discussions [img]smile.gif[/img] But, (and Im not saying that I doubt your word or anything) Im curious, You were or someone you knew was the subject of Active duty military surveilance? If you would be willing to share I would be highly interested in your account, since I am a total military freak [img]smile.gif[/img] I would find the information pretty interesting....if you cant talk about it that is ok too.
 
Old 05-31-2002, 04:18 PM   #32
Azred
Drow Priestess
 

Join Date: March 13, 2001
Location: a hidden sanctorum high above the metroplex
Age: 54
Posts: 4,037
I wonder if they will be able to tell when someone is being sarcastic, or parodying something in fun?

What if I am writing a short story or novel about either terrorists or those engaged in criminal activity? Will they try to say that I am "formulating a plot"?

What if I wanted to convert to Islam?

What if I wrote a letter to the Dallas Morning News trying to point out how the city could be vulnerable to "traffic attack" from a small group--only 10--of people driving "18-wheeler" trucks?

*sigh* Too many questions. I was too young to really remember the "good old days" of Nixon and Hoover.

Interestingly enough, though, if you check out USSearch.com, they talk about "checking out your neighbors" through their service....

Let the paranoia run rampant again! [img]graemlins/laugh3.gif[/img]
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Old 05-31-2002, 04:19 PM   #33
Moni
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Magik,
I can't talk about it...some of the people who were involved are still alive and I'll probably remain a mark until someone with enough clout can clear my name...I am totally harmless!
Like I said though, more often than not it is private citizens and local law enforcement who are involved. By private citizens, in my case at least, I do refer to ex-military personnel who were involved. It was probably just coincidence that those particular ex-military personnel had/have the right connections. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 05-31-2002, 04:20 PM: Message edited by: Moni ]
 
Old 05-31-2002, 04:21 PM   #34
MagiK
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Quote:
Originally posted by Azred:
I wonder if they will be able to tell when someone is being sarcastic, or parodying something in fun?

What if I am writing a short story or novel about either terrorists or those engaged in criminal activity? Will they try to say that I am "formulating a plot"?

What if I wanted to convert to Islam?

What if I wrote a letter to the Dallas Morning News trying to point out how the city could be vulnerable to "traffic attack" from a small group--only 10--of people driving "18-wheeler" trucks?

*sigh* Too many questions. I was too young to really remember the "good old days" of Nixon and Hoover.

Interestingly enough, though, if you check out USSearch.com, they talk about "checking out your neighbors" through their service....

Let the paranoia run rampant again! [img]graemlins/laugh3.gif[/img]
My guess is that it would be the same way anyone reads stuff...Context .
 
Old 05-31-2002, 04:24 PM   #35
MagiK
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Quote:
Originally posted by Moni:
Magik,
I can't talk about it...some of the people who were involved are still alive and I'll probably remain a mark until someone with enough clout can clear my name...I am totally harmless!
Like I said though, more often than not it is private citizens and local law enforcement who are involved. By private citizens, in my case at least, I do refer to ex-military personnel who were involved. It was probably just coincidence that those particular ex-military personnel had/have the right connections. [img]smile.gif[/img]
Okie Doke Moni [img]smile.gif[/img] I know all about not being able to discss those kinds of things [img]smile.gif[/img]
 
Old 05-31-2002, 04:24 PM   #36
Moni
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Quote:
Originally posted by Azred:
I wonder if they will be able to tell when someone is being sarcastic, or parodying something in fun?

What if I am writing a short story or novel about either terrorists or those engaged in criminal activity? Will they try to say that I am "formulating a plot"?

What if I wanted to convert to Islam?

What if I wrote a letter to the Dallas Morning News trying to point out how the city could be vulnerable to "traffic attack" from a small group--only 10--of people driving "18-wheeler" trucks?

*sigh* Too many questions. I was too young to really remember the "good old days" of Nixon and Hoover.

Interestingly enough, though, if you check out USSearch.com, they talk about "checking out your neighbors" through their service....

Let the paranoia run rampant again! [img]graemlins/laugh3.gif[/img]
Whether or not you are being sarcastic, parodying in fun, or trying to give warning to what is possible, you'd be surprised at the number of totally radical people out there who would pick up on your ideas, remember them and even perfect them for use.
I know a lot of ways to innocently hurt mass numbers of people. I'm keeeping them to myself.

As far as converting to Islam, there is a freedom of religion in this country but don't expect it to be easy for you if all Islamic people become suspect as enemies of the government.

[ 05-31-2002, 04:25 PM: Message edited by: Moni ]
 
Old 05-31-2002, 04:26 PM   #37
Morgan_Corbesant
Symbol of Cyric
 

Join Date: August 19, 2001
Location: Portland, Oregon
Age: 45
Posts: 1,224
im not saying that any citizen is more of a citizen. where in my post did you get that?! all i said was i would continue to EARN my rights, i didnt flame or anything. i didnt say "absynthe, i earn my rights, thus im more of a citizen". i said rights are earned to given. that is all, the rights still apply to all, though some shouldnt be aloud to use them, simply on the basis that the freedom of speach, and freedom of expression are just taken WAY out of context. anyway, i didnt mean to imply that im more of a citizen because i earn my rights that most are given. i think you are blinded, and read my post wrong.
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Old 05-31-2002, 04:37 PM   #38
Rokenn
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Join Date: January 22, 2002
Location: california wine country
Age: 60
Posts: 2,193
Quote:
Originally posted by khazadman:
quote:
The true irony here is that the government does not need these new surveillance powers. They had many pieces of the 9/11 puzzles well in advance of the event, but due to inept bureaucrats and poor coordination they missed it. The FBI was forbidden from domestic spying for good reason, since they badly abused that power in the 60's and 70's.
and what exactly were these abuses in the 60's and 70's?was it the monitoring criminal organizations like the black panthers,a.i.m.,and a whole host of left wing groups?[/QUOTE]Well, the FBI carried out widespread domestic spying in the 1960s and ’70s as part of the notorious COINTELPRO (counter-intelligence program) operation. Under then-FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover, COINTELPRO targeted black nationalists, civil rights activists and opponents of the Vietnam War. Those under surveillance included boxer Muhammad Ali, actress Jane Fonda, Dr. Benjamin Spock, John Lennon, Dr. Martin Luther King, among many others. Quite a list of criminal organizations... The campaign was targeted against people excursing their constitutional rights of free speech and dissent. The congressional investigation into COINTELPRO showed the FBI used all kinds of illegal methods to do this: illegal wiretaps, blackmail, forgery, and extortion among others.

edit:to actually add my reply, did not take for some reason.

[ 05-31-2002, 04:37 PM: Message edited by: Rokenn ]
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Old 05-31-2002, 04:43 PM   #39
Rokenn
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Join Date: January 22, 2002
Location: california wine country
Age: 60
Posts: 2,193
Quote:
Originally posted by Morgan_Corbesant:
im not saying that any citizen is more of a citizen. where in my post did you get that?! all i said was i would continue to EARN my rights, i didnt flame or anything. i didnt say "absynthe, i earn my rights, thus im more of a citizen". i said rights are earned to given. that is all, the rights still apply to all, though some shouldnt be aloud to use them, simply on the basis that the freedom of speach, and freedom of expression are just taken WAY out of context. anyway, i didnt mean to imply that im more of a citizen because i earn my rights that most are given. i think you are blinded, and read my post wrong.
Are you going to be the one to decided who gets to use their constitutional rights and who doesn't? Or maybe Mr Ashcroft can decide. That is a mighty slippery slope to tread on as suddenly you might find yourself on receiving end of that rights denial.

Also no one in the United States 'earns' their rights as a citizen. They are guarenteed to all by the Bill of Rights and the Constitution.
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Old 05-31-2002, 04:49 PM   #40
Moni
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Morgan_Corbesant, Absynthe & Rokenn,

I'll step in and say that yes, born in this country makes us all Americans and we are given our rights by birth. It is what we do with them that allows us to keep them or not.

We do EARN our rights by contributing to our communities and believe it or not, like it or not...some people have more rights than others simply by the names of the people they know or are related to and the names of a$$es they kiss and support(not saying that any of you kiss anyone's a$$ so please don't misunderstand me OK?)...others are given less rights simply by not kissing a$$ and who they don't know personally.
It all a matter of who you know, how much they like you, and how much money you have when it comes down to matters of law where you happen to be not guilty where someone with "more rights than you" can get you canned regardless of your innocence. It happens.

As far as everyday life is concerned, we all have the same rights and should consider ourselves lucky for them. I think we all agree on this last statement so let's not argue OK?
[img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 05-31-2002, 04:52 PM: Message edited by: Moni ]
 
 


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