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Old 03-30-2001, 07:27 AM   #31
WOLFGIR
Bastet - Egyptian Cat Goddess
 

Join Date: March 1, 2001
Location: Sweden
Age: 50
Posts: 3,450
Quote:
Originally posted by Erekose:
It would be nice if they could come up with a standard for DVD's but until all the parties come to the table it seems that's going to take a while. Limiting the amount of magic items would be a good start i guess, of course we could always impose these restictions ourselves i guess. I might try capping the experience of a party myself and see what challenge that offers. Thanks for everyones ideas.
Cheers

Hmm, Temple of Elemental Evil, brings back memories.. Greyhawk, i just say Greyhawk!


Well, fewer magic items could be good, for instance how many used the masterwork items in Icewind dle? i saved my oney knowing that soon the +1 itemswere bound to appear.. and well they did..

DVD, well they´re supposed to be standard equipment on most new computers from mow on, read an article not long ago about that.
And they´re aren´t that expansive now either, though they are a bit buggy IMHO.


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Old 04-01-2001, 03:53 AM   #32
Erekose
The Magister
 

Join Date: March 25, 2001
Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Posts: 117
It was a shame they didn't introduce the magic items until a bit later in the game. Just after you get a decent set of materwork items they brought the enchanted ones in. It would be interesting to see a game with the "great weapon" in it being the good old longsword +1! Of course you wouldn't have the special effects from the weapons but it would be interesting to play. Perhaps I am asking for too much ?
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Old 04-01-2001, 11:26 AM   #33
PreciousGollum
Elite Waterdeep Guard
 

Join Date: April 1, 2001
Location: England
Posts: 42
I think one of the main problems with CRGP's is that a great number of players get off on building up their characters stats to kick major ass.It's hard to come up with another solution to make the game challenging and fun to play,more puzzles could be implimented but then we're getting into point n' click adventure territory.Actually,my prefered style of PnP play is more akin to the LucasArts/Monkey Island games-interesting character interaction and feindish puzzle solving.

How to escape the random encounter=experience points=character progression scenario in CRPG's,is it possible?I'm not sure,but I would like to see greater character advancement throughout a game by means other than current level status.Final Fantasy games maynot be to everyones Tolkienesque tastes,but there is much more emphasis placed on how the characters progress emotionally throughout the game that actually works!

Most 'revolutionary' new gaming systems are in actual fact a big pile of shite,I think it's gonna be a while before we see any real change in the way these games are played.I'm not that interested in all the combat side of things,+3armour,hammers of spine fragmentation and boots of moonwalking have never been a big part of RPG's for me.Just give me a glorious magical realm,full of wonder and mystery and see me smile,I'm more of an explorer than an adventuring megalomaniac.

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Old 04-01-2001, 12:09 PM   #34
Strahd Von Zarovich
Drow Warrior
 

Join Date: March 2, 2001
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 266
But Returning to that 40Th level cap,Top level of a thief, dosen't it set a new bar. After Playing such a High level people might demand higer and better in future games. So if Bg2 sets the new standart we better get used to high power hack&slach caracters with humongus powers what will be the next chanlange? Ao himself?

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Old 04-01-2001, 10:58 PM   #35
Sazerac
Ironworks Moderator
 

Join Date: January 7, 2001
Location: Monroe, LA
Age: 60
Posts: 7,387
Well, I'm probably putting my neck on the line with this one, but I'll tell you in a word what's wrong with CRPG's today.

MYST.

That rotten, poor excuse of a game (did I say game? I meant SCREEN SAVER with a few puzzles thrown in) is at the root of everything that's wrong with today's games. Before MYST, you actually had games that valued substance over fluff and filler, that supported a logical thread of events, and were concerned with CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT. Whoa, concept!

On the subject of ridiculously high levels, I wholeheartedly applaud the return to games that either limit levels and extend them to other games (Realms of Arkania was like this) or make it very difficult to extrude to higher and higher ones. TES: Arena and Daggerfall were like this: I think in Arena you could maybe get up to level 24 or 25, and DF let the character get up to level 30 max (logical maximum based on the formula involved). Still very, very high levels, but not anywhere near the realm of 100+ like the Might and Magic games supported.

I doubt we'll see a return to a pre-MYST gaming world, but I for one would like more emphasis on character development and game world interaction in my games than so much on graphics and "kewl" effects.

-Sazerac
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Old 04-02-2001, 09:04 AM   #36
Erekose
The Magister
 

Join Date: March 25, 2001
Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Posts: 117
I think you have hit the nail on the proverbial head. Low levels equals chance for character development. Something that doesn't happen in the same way if your level 3000 and 46 Indeed where do you go with a level 40 character? Battling demi-powers and the like? Take the D&D option and retire the character. I wonder how viable a low level game in a D&D format would be in the current market? I would still love to say, "Yep, I killed that vampire with a series of magic missiles, then my fighter did him in with his trusty +1 dagger" "Of course half the party were killed when level drained down to nothing and we had to stake them, but we did it".

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Old 04-02-2001, 09:50 AM   #37
Memnoch
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Join Date: February 28, 2001
Location: Boston/Sydney
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Quote:
Originally posted by Erekose:
It was a shame they didn't introduce the magic items until a bit later in the game. Just after you get a decent set of materwork items they brought the enchanted ones in. It would be interesting to see a game with the "great weapon" in it being the good old longsword +1! Of course you wouldn't have the special effects from the weapons but it would be interesting to play. Perhaps I am asking for too much ?
Well, there was a game like that - it was called BG1. And it pretty much kicked everything else's ass when it came out. I also thought that Ultima IV and V did a great job in managing your level progression.

I agree with most of what you've said Erekose, with one exception - I don't think that Bioware (or any other company) could release 4-5 BG1-level games in a row and keep the series commercially viable. Even with the ToTSC expansion the enemies and items were markedly more powerful than BG1 because that's what consumers in general wanted. Having 4-5 games where you are constantly struggling using +1 weapons fighting hobgoblins, orcs, and more of the same would get old real quick - especially with the fringe CRPG consumer segment which delivered a lot of BG2's topline revenue.

I'm sure a happy medium could've been found between BG1 and BG2. However, the feedback Bioware received back when they were putting BG2 together was more! more! more! powerful everything - beholders, liches, dragons, etc. to the point where all these monsters lost their mystique and became everyday also-rans.

We'll see if they adopt a different approach for the next series (if there is one).

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My name is Memnoch. And your name is...destined to be a footnote in the sands of time.

[This message has been edited by Memnoch (edited 04-02-2001).]
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Old 04-02-2001, 10:03 AM   #38
Sir_Tainly
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I agree Memnoch,

In IWD things go a little topsy turvy. Until level 8/9 all monster are really tough, then all of a sudden they all seem a bit easy, and you characters seem to get that much better. (or this me just getting better?)

I would get really bored of being intimidated by goblins if it stayed that way for a whole game. Having done BG2, then IWD with BG1 still to play, I found it a rude awakening that goblins were dangerous at levels 1/2

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Old 04-02-2001, 10:21 AM   #39
Erekose
The Magister
 

Join Date: March 25, 2001
Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Posts: 117
Thinking about it, i guess BG1 did do a pretty good job of capping magic items. The best longsword was that +2 with 1 point of cold damage, Viscona or something like that. And the dragons were pretty tough in BG2 unless you just summoned hordes of monsters. I spent 4 hours just running in and casting my best offensive spells then retreating against the red dragon in that. I wonder what difference the 3rd edition could make to the computer world? Considering there could be a 10th level Kobold fighter-priest-thief? Or a 15th level goblin general who could beat your whole party to death if he went beserk?
Cheers

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"You all wished me to arouse the blade and use it. Now, I think, we begin to understand the consequences. The Black Sword must be fed. It will feed on friends if it cannot feed on enemies......"
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