What's going on

[Melusine]

Mirac and Epona, I think you are certainly right in saying that people who know they will be upset by what they read in the War forum should stay away from it (though Mirac, phrasing it as "it's their own fault" is too accusatory to my tastes - maybe you should try and imagine how it feels when you're in a heated discussion about things that mean the world to you) and I also tend to agree that everybody here reacts more strongly or emotionally than they usually do. However, you shouldn't do away with all of the current problems as easy as that. I think the people who left (including me - I am still not decided on whether it's actually worth the bother...) didn't leave only because their poor ovesensitive little nerves couldn't take it anymore, but because they recognise what's been going on on the fourms lately: in the heat of discussions, people just have lost respect for their opponents in an all-consuming fixation on pushing their point. Just look at the majority of the posts here and compare them to those of a few months ago - people have lost respect for eachother!
Hello everybody!!! This is your wakeup call!!! Moiraine, Bilqis, Slackerboy, Nick, Cloudbringer, me... why the hell do you think we got fed up?? Hell, even Sazerac says he's thought about leaving! I hope you feel proud of yourselves for almost losing one of the best moderators ever!!
I certainly see 250's point in his "what is wrong with leaving" thread (if I may paraphrase, he says that IW isn't built on tradition, so we should not try to frantically hold on to our own idea of how the boards ought to be, but instead embrace the changes that came along with all our new members.) He is definitely right in that, and I think almost all of us HAVE done that. Take the clan-roleplaying for example; none of the old members complained about those, even though they certainly changed the atmosphere on the boards (not for the worse, of course, they just changed the kind of topics we all talk about). Look at how incredibly fast new members like Kaz, Dragonmage, Lioness, Seph, Cheetah became accepted, and in fact became a large part of the new IW (I still can't believe how fast Kaz's post count is going up ). I think we all did a damn good job at accepting changes and welcoming new members like old friends.
I don't think THAT's the reason for people's discontent at all. The reason is - in almost every single discussion, people get hurt. People offend others, and people ON BOTH sides became much more ruthless. Everybody seems to care less about eachother (may I quote Rikard, who doesn't care about anybody leaving...I hope he's the only one who thinks that, because if you first worship Cloudy like some friggin goddess and then don't care if she leaves, that's just bloody hypocritical) and have become a little less caring in general. I don't find it so hard to believe that this kind of atmosphere makes people decide to take a break, and I certainly don't think that it's "their own fault".

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Melusine, Sultry Elflet,
High Queen of Fluffies,
Archbabe of the OHF,
LH, HADB and ORT!

Your voice is ambrosia
Amy Brown Fantasy Art

[Melusine]

Originally posted by Hiram Sedai: I don't want to play "devil's advocate" here but I do understand how easy it is to get your feelings hurt. I've seen many people really put alot of time and effort into their posts. We have different degrees of sensitivity. Therefore, I must disagree with some who say that words won't hurt. Its a totally subjective thing. We don't all have that "immunity" although it would be nice to have that ability to let it slide. I'll just speak for myself. When I enter into a discussion and share my opinion, I care about the responses I receive. I check that thread to see what other people think. If someone disagrees with me, then I understand that they have another view point but it matters very much how that subject is approached. The hot topics of religion, politics, war and lately, the tragedy are some very hot topics. I try to stay away from them because I know that I won't like some of the responses I see. What am I trying to say? Well, I guess I'm trying to empathize with those who need to distance themselves from the forum for awhile. When they are in the proper frame of mind, they can come back and contriubute again. All in all, I believe that you get what you give.

Thanks, Hiram! Brilliant post - you put into words what I tried to



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Melusine, Sultry Elflet,
High Queen of Fluffies,
Archbabe of the OHF,
LH, HADB and ORT!

Your voice is ambrosia
Amy Brown Fantasy Art

[adam warlock]

they are leaving?? damn... they will be missed.

ONE of the reasons I don't go to that forum because too many folks got hurt by it!

[Epona]

Sorry, esp. to Melusine, since you picked me up on a very valid point!
I don't think I put my last post very well, and it may not have come across as I intended (damn incoherent Mondayitis )

Let me try again!
I can understand why people feel the need to take a break. But because the 'hot topics' are now all in one place, could they not take a break from that one forum, rather than leaving IW entirely? I thought that was the point of having it separate, that's all. I don't like to see people I consider to be friends leaving GD, BGII, Books, Polls, because of a disagreement in the war forum. Just the way I see it.

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Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so.

Epona of The Laughing Hyenas
Proud winner of the 'Most Useless Post 250 Has Ever Seen' Award 2001. "I'd just like to thank my friends and family, without whom none of this would have been possible..."

[This message has been edited by Epona (edited 10-22-2001).]

[Memnoch]

Originally posted by Hiram Sedai: I don't want to play "devil's advocate" here but I do understand how easy it is to get your feelings hurt. I've seen many people really put alot of time and effort into their posts. We have different degrees of sensitivity. Therefore, I must disagree with some who say that words won't hurt. Its a totally subjective thing. We don't all have that "immunity" although it would be nice to have that ability to let it slide. I'll just speak for myself. When I enter into a discussion and share my opinion, I care about the responses I receive. I check that thread to see what other people think. If someone disagrees with me, then I understand that they have another view point but it matters very much how that subject is approached. The hot topics of religion, politics, war and lately, the tragedy are some very hot topics. I try to stay away from them because I know that I won't like some of the responses I see. What am I trying to say? Well, I guess I'm trying to empathize with those who need to distance themselves from the forum for awhile. When they are in the proper frame of mind, they can come back and contriubute again. All in all, I believe that you get what you give.

I guess I didn't explain myself clearly yet again. What I was trying to say is to TRY not to take things personally here. I realize this is not as easy as it sounds, but if you think about it YOU are in control of your emotions. From my perspective, it's all about self-control and discipline. (This is NOT meant as a criticism of anyone.)

With the number of posts I've had to read...the number of arguments I've had to cool down...the number of times I've had to bite my tongue and discipline myself not to react angrily to opinions that I see posted on the forum that may differ from my own...the number of times I've had to remind myself that people have a right to have an opinion that differs from my own...the number of times that I've had to make hard decisions that I know will be unpopular with someone...it's the only way I've managed to keep my sanity and still get up from my PC with a smile at the end of the day.

I won't lie to you, the thought of packing it all in and riding off into the sunset has crossed my mind once or twice in the last month or so. I have a very busy, stressful RL job and don't really need all this sh!te during my leisure time. But I do love you all, I love Ironworks and I am DETERMINED to make this place into the place that we all knew, the place where people could live harmoniously and post their opinions and not be pounded into the ground for it.

Please remember, the world won't end tomorrow if the other person doesn't agree with you or posts something you don't like. YOU are in control of how you feel. If you need to take a break, do so by all means. But don't put yourself through hurt and stress when you don't have to. Life's to short to get upset about little things like someone else's opinion.


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[adam warlock]

Originally posted by Epona: Let me try again! I can understand why people feel the need to take a break. But because the 'hot topics' are now all in one place, could they not take a break from that one forum, rather than leaving IW entirely? I thought that was the point of having it separate, that's all. I don't like to see people I consider to be friends leaving GD, BGII, Books, Polls, because of a disagreement in the war forum. Just the way I see it.

You're right Epona... I've done that

[Hiram Sedai]

Originally posted by Memnoch: I guess I didn't explain myself clearly yet again. What I was trying to say is to TRY not to take things personally here. I realize this is not as easy as it sounds, but if you think about it YOU are in control of your emotions. From my perspective, it's all about self-control and discipline. (This is NOT meant as a criticism of anyone.) With the number of posts I've had to read...the number of arguments I've had to cool down...the number of times I've had to bite my tongue and discipline myself not to react angrily to opinions that I see posted on the forum that may differ from my own...the number of times I've had to remind myself that people have a right to have an opinion that differs from my own...the number of times that I've had to make hard decisions that I know will be unpopular with someone...it's the only way I've managed to keep my sanity and still get up from my PC with a smile at the end of the day. I won't lie to you, the thought of packing it all in and riding off into the sunset has crossed my mind once or twice in the last month or so. I have a very busy, stressful RL job and don't really need all this sh!te during my leisure time. But I do love you all, I love Ironworks and I am DETERMINED to make this place into the place that we all knew, the place where people could live harmoniously and post their opinions and not be pounded into the ground for it. Please remember, the world won't end tomorrow if the other person doesn't agree with you or posts something you don't like. YOU are in control of how you feel. If you need to take a break, do so by all means. But don't put yourself through hurt and stress when you don't have to. Life's to short to get upset about little things like someone else's opinion.

Good on ya, mate! I really appreciated that response.


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"I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
-Robert McCloskey

• Token lackwit of HADB
  
• Sycophant to the Wolf of Azure Hue
  
• Long lost brother of DragonMage
  
• Bearer of a work of art created by Sazerac
  
• Jeg burde blive gennembanket for min flatulens.[/list]

[WOLFGIR]

Trying to aswell, and well Memnoch´s and the other Moderators statement of trying to make this place better.. Well I´m only a howl away now anyway so when I feel the time as ready, I will be back in force or well just stay in touch.

Mostly it feels that since we lost the politics debate, we now have the new vs old members here... And since Wah got back here I say that the newbies are in need of some new heroes (oki, a bad joke but I need to use the muscle to move my mouth upwards, my mom at least thinks I´m cute when I do that.. wabbits find it fearocious! )..

To this I can only say one thing.

Cycles dudes, you new guys will be old here one day too!
Don´t get to aggitated with us oldies since well´, you will be nagging about it later on as well!
Cycles, we have talked about things you ae doing now, we feel that, well did that, and well.. If the oldies try, will you newbies try too? A tough decision right? Man, I wake up in the middle of the bed this morning instead of falling out

And when she is here, a big wolfiehug to Melusinchen!

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Howling to the moon, cause this world seems so far away..
Wolfgirs lair
once-upon-a-paper

[Memnoch]

Originally posted by Hiram Sedai: Good on ya, mate! I really appreciated that response.

PLEASE don't think that I'm laying the blame back on people for being too sensitive because I'm NOT. If other people are being rude, callous or heartless when posting their opinion (some people seem to take pride in being hard-nosed, unfortunately) and are in posting their opinion are disrespecting other people's right to have an opinion) then people are entitled to get upset. In that case email one of us, that's what we're here for. We WON'T abandon you and I would hate to think that anyone felt that way.


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[Memnoch]

Originally posted by WOLFGIR: Trying to aswell, and well Memnoch´s and the other Moderators statement of trying to make this place better.. Well I´m only a howl away now anyway so when I feel the time as ready, I will be back in force or well just stay in touch. Mostly it feels that since we lost the politics debate, we now have the new vs old members here... And since Wah got back here I say that the newbies are in need of some new heroes (oki, a bad joke but I need to use the muscle to move my mouth upwards, my mom at least thinks I´m cute when I do that.. wabbits find it fearocious! ).. To this I can only say one thing. Cycles dudes, you new guys will be old here one day too! Don´t get to aggitated with us oldies since well´, you will be nagging about it later on as well! Cycles, we have talked about things you ae doing now, we feel that, well did that, and well.. If the oldies try, will you newbies try too? A tough decision right? Man, I wake up in the middle of the bed this morning instead of falling out And when she is here, a big wolfiehug to Melusinchen!

HOOOWWWLLL!!!!!

Man, that felt good, Wolfie! Releases all that nervous energy like you wouldn't believe!


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