A Look into Atheism.

[The Hierophant]

Originally posted by Azred: One day after reading several dozen books about philosophy, theology, existence, etc. your brain will misfire. [img]graemlins/1drool.gif[/img] After you recover from this you will realize that now is all you have and that the quality of your life depends upon whether or not you are making yourself and those around you happy, as well as doing no harm to others. Trust me, you won't have to think about whether you're getting it right because you will know when you have it right. Life is simple...quit tyring so hard! [img]graemlins/petard.gif[/img]

hmmmm. But 'problems' arise when you are unsure as to whether anything can actually be right. 'Comfortable' maybe. 'Right'...hmmmmm.....

[Azred]

Originally posted by The Hierophant: hmmmm. But 'problems' arise when you are unsure as to whether anything can actually be right. 'Comfortable' maybe. 'Right'...hmmmmm.....

You're still trying too hard. [img]graemlins/nono.gif[/img] If you are unsure whether something is "right", then you still have more to learn. I know that my life with Belle is right, and I know it so well that I don't have to question whether or not it is right.

Can you not hear the grasshopper at your feet? [img]graemlins/beigesmilewinkgrin.gif[/img]

[Timber Loftis]

I KNOW I'm right -- just ask me. [img]graemlins/petard.gif[/img]

Look, I'm an atheist and I believe in right/wrong and good. (I don't let my disdain of religion keep me from my metaphysical conceits. ) I also think the threat of eternal damnation is a piss poor reason to do what is right, as one should just do what is right because it is right. Despite how much I realize grand theories work better in theory than in reality, I'm still a believer that if everyone everywhere strives to acheive the good, we'll all get there eventually.

There was a thread I started a while back -- famously ending the IW BAN on religious discussions, mind you (*breaks arm patting self on back*). There is a LOT of back-reading you may want to do on the topic. Some of us won't feel like repeating ourselves again. As I don't think the search function is around these days, you may have to do some digging -- but you'll get upwards of 15 pages of posts for your efforts.

[Jorath Calar]

I am an athieist, although I'm greatly interested in mythology and theology, I just look at it as "Stories", so to speak. I also greatly respect other peoples believes, as long as they follow on additional commandment that I think was left out...
"Keep thy religion to thyself"...

Nothing bothers me more than people trying to push their believes on others and claiming theirs is the only correct one...

[Azimaith]

Originally posted by Harkoliar: interesting points there. to me each has his/her own beliefs in life. there is no right or wrong in his belief as long it doenst hurt people in any way. and that itself is my belief for other people. my belief is a mix or a moderate view of both chrisitanity and satanism (not worhiping satan but wiccan theology).

Um satanism is the worship of satan, wicca is the name for the druidic religions, you could also call it paganism.

[Azimaith]

Originally posted by WOLFGIR: Personally I think you have missed the most important aspects actually to what morales is and where they come from. 1. Parents, relatives, freinds and grown ups will affect a young person grreatly, either good or bad. But as always it is not set in stone. 2. Life. Life will teach you right or wrong due to what you live through. Well add them or not, but I think there is more to the morality issued then just believing in a god or not. Alot more.

Look Parents, relatives, friends, and grown ups learn their morality basically from where? Religion! Therefore I don't think I have missed it at all.

Second, life does not teach you whats right and wrong, it teaches you neutral facts which become right and wrong dependant on your learning of morals either directly from religion or people who took it from religion.

If I were never to meet a single human in my entire life and I killed a person, I wouldn't think of it as "wrong" it just did what I felt like doing, life has no innate morality.

[Azimaith]

[quote]Originally posted by Faceman:
Atheism opposed to Agnosticism is still a form of belief. An Atheist believes[/b] that there is no god while an Agnosticist (whom I consider myself to be) simply states that he does not belief that there is a god but concedes that there might be a god. Kant proved that the existence of god cannot be proved and I chose to found my morale on other grounds. Being atheistic does not make me immoral. At this point in life I have found myself to belief in law (like you stated you do) and its ability to make our society work.

When did I confuse agnotstics with atheists? I still said that atheist does not believe in gods or deities, I never said they are undecided.

Most animals and therefore also humans DO have an innate aversion to killing their own kind. It's one of natures primary means of ensuring the surviving of a a species. In fact killing your own kind is mostly a product of society and "brainy" interaction and commonly not based solely on instinct.

When a lion takes over a pack it will kill the cubs of the previous male, thats killing without aversion, cannabalism, especially in fish and reptiles, is very common, many types of birds steal nests and push out incubating eggs for their own, this could be the nest of any bird, even that of their own kind. In battles for dominance they are rarely to the death because the loser runs away, if he kept fighting you had best believe the defender would kill him if he had physical superiority, the superior dominance fighter does not give chase because there is no reason to fight a fleeing foe, not because he doesn't want to kill him. There are several examples of animals killing their own kind. This of course also doesn't count the countless numbers of primates such as baboons which kill others of the pack in fits of rage or battles for dominance.

Atheism or Agnosticism are IMHO for people who don't need religion to make their social life and their part in society work. I contribute to society because I want it to progress. You could call me a believer in society. As everybody is searching for the "meaning of life" religions provide a nice answer while atheism does not in the first place. I for instance have chosen to belief that the meaning of life is to ensure the continuing existence and improvement of humankind. And to make it more philosophical: As for now nobody can find the meaning of life but if progression of humankind is ensured maybe some day someone will and I'm willing to contribute to that. What you however stated correctly is that atheism can be a dangerous belief for people who do found their morals on beliefs of personal gain. These are IMHO most people and (I know this is a bit presumptous) I think they are not ready for Atheism yet. A main problem of modern society is that atheism (not agnosticism which would defy this by its own nature) is promoted like a religion as it is a belief yet cannot fullfill the purposes of religion. [/QB]

[True_Moose]

Actually I believe there are some studies (don't ask me to link...I couldn't search my way out of a wet paper bag) that seem to indicate that things like killing your own race and similar acts. Since apes, and their relative humans, are pack and tribal animals, it seems to me that some kind of natural instinct prevents them from doing this.

I personally am a believer in nature and nurture. I think that some people are born slanted towards certain dispositions, whether it be chemical or not. Also, parents have a definitely large say in their children's value.

I personally don't believe in God. I am as atheistic as people get. I believe that society is far superior to any unknown being. However, I do respect other's beliefs. Whatever makes you happy, and fulfilled is whatever you should believe. I know others that are religious, and I have great respect for them. My values are similar: I have had brushes with the law in the past (I'm still a teenager [img]graemlins/petard.gif[/img] ) but I am still at heart a good person, and donate quite generous amounts of money to charity, will give up my seat on the bus, and other such things. I couldn't care less about your religious orientation, if you're a good person, then you're fine in my book. I have strong convictions, as do many other atheists, unlike some religious figures . Religion/atheism is but a small part of the equation.

[The Hierophant]

So the common denominators in all examples of how lifeforms behave are the notions of life and death (survival and morality being subsets of these fundamental notions). Morality justifies the reactions of a particular lifeform (in this instance the genetic construction that has come to formulate 'homo sapiens sapiens') in it's continuation of self-perception. But what IS each lifeform, really?
Anything other than a single celled organism (which are themselves incredibly complex beings in their own right) is not really a singular organism at all, but rather a co-operative commune of organisms/cells with specialised tasks for the maintenence of cohesive bodily structure. The mind is not an organ, but rather a collective of beings, bonded together in mutual subservience. You are not 'you' at all. You are the commune of inter-dependant brain cells. But how do these cells create the projected image of consciousness? Is consciousness merely the 4-dimensional computorised control panel of the brain collective? Perhaps so, but what causes consciousness to change the layout of it's surroundings? Why do things not remain static? TIME! Time, is the key! But what exactly is time? And what role does it really play in the governing of our existence? We can sense and measure it's presence all around us, but are unable to focus our senses on it directly. Perhaps this is deliberate, a means of ensuring that the slave cannot see the chains that bind it to it's master. Or perhaps there are other reasons, I desperately need to discover what they are!

I (or, should I say 'we', 'my' body being the collective of organisms that it is) refuse to ignore the nagging sensation that I am having the wool pulled over my eyes. I refuse to snuggle down and find contentment in sexual companionship. Do to so would merely mean to continue the cycle of ignorant life-plodding. Conception-->maturation--->reproductive coupling--->conception... Hugs and kisses are no substitute for finding the truth of our existence! I will die in a matter of decades. Ie: My cells will dissipate within a matter of 'decades' (or what I percieve to be decades, when I have the sneaking suspicion that it is merely a influx of timeflow through the cells of my body, rather than my body actually progressing through any particular developmental process), and thus my consciousness will dissolve with them. So I must act fast if I will have any hope of consciously recognising my maker...

[Azred]

Originally posted by Azimaith: Second, life does not teach you whats right and wrong, it teaches you neutral facts which become right and wrong dependant on your learning of morals either directly from religion or people who took it from religion. Well then, you won't mind if I and some friends of mine hold you down and take all your money would you? It would simply be a neutral fact that we took your money, neither right nor wrong. [img]graemlins/beigesmilewinkgrin.gif[/img] If I were never to meet a single human in my entire life and I killed a person, I wouldn't think of it as "wrong" it just did what I felt like doing, life has no innate morality. This is true...for 1-year-olds. Doesn't compassion or thinking about the welfare of others matter anywhere? [img]graemlins/1ponder.gif[/img]