Assassins

[Gorgasim]

Thats what I thought....just hasn't been landing I guess. Oh well, it'll work one of these times. thanks for the info

[Robin, Thief of Hearts]

Assassins are very very disappointing, at lower levels. I've made several, experimenting with different builds.

As thieves, they suck. Only 15 points to spend per level? Pfaugh. How are you supposed to set traps, and backstab before you get to level 50? Not if you have any traps to find or locks to pick. Forget it. Take a basic thief anyday.

As fighters, they suck MORE. Lousy THACOs, low HP. No high proficiencies allowed.
Sure they get a big backstab multiplier, but you know what? Seven times zero is uh.....duh... zero. You have to actually be able to HIT the damn target first!

Here are some pointers that might help you out -

*It's pretty easy to acquire Boots of stealth and Good Leathers that assist in hiding, so bumping up the Hide-in-shadows and Move-silent skills to max is pointless early on. Assign points to other areas.

* Putting a load of points into trap setting will make you useful. Traps can take out virtually anything in the game. You can set, sleep and reset. While camped, you have good protection.

* Poison skills lasts for a duration of TIME, not a fixed number of attacks. It can also be transmitted along a ranged weapon, EVEN a sling. Specialise in something that permits a lot of speedy attacks, preferably over range, and rotate targets to poison them all with a single use of the skill. I like darts, but that's just me. They're fast, use the strength bonus, and you get to zap many opponents quick. The Tuigan bow is a great way to capitalise on the poisoned machine gun approach.

Here's a horrible one:
After getting a decent level as an assassin, switch over to a mage( dual class)
Eventually you'll regain the assassin abilities. Now here's the kicker.
Learn Melf's Minute Meteors. Get yourself a Powerful plus whatever dagger. Stick her in the left hand, after casting the spell, and use POison ability before tossing the weapon. You'll poison between incinerations, and the dagger NEVER leaves your hands.
Ouch Ouch OUCH!!!!!

Race selections-

Half Orc gives a high strength of 19 max. Good for hitting hard at backstabs, but wouldn't you rather just wear a belt of strength than have that complexion?

Elf offers natural extra proficiency in longsword and longbow. Add in the basic one point you are allowed, and you have the equivalent of a Human Ranger level of proficiency to start with.
Also, your dex can be up to 19 naturally, great for all thieving skills, and missile weapons. AND you get to see in the dark. Best one for assassin characters. Add the Bracer of Archery to gain better shots, and poison away.

I'm just WAITIN for Alchemy!!!!

Just a few points to add to Robin's post:

1) While elves get a bonus with longbows, elvish assassins can't use them (unless you use Shadowkeeper).

2) Half-orcs may have a bad complexion, but their victims will never see 'em Wouldn't you rather give that girdle of giant strength to someone else so that two in your party can have giant strength?

3) Yes, their thieving skills generally suck, but if you're familiar with some of the magic items in the game and assign your points accordingly, you can alleviate the problem somewhat.
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Make sure your assassin's Move Silently and Set Traps skills don't naturally exceed 80% and the Hide in Shadows skill doesn't go over 55 or 60. The BonusCD merchant in the Adventure Mart can sell you the Mercykiller Ring, which increases all 3 skills by 20%, and you can get some +5 Leather Armor called the Night's Gift for completing the Umar Hills/Shade Lord quest that increases your Hide in Shadows by 20%. Then you can start devoting your points to the other skills - just make sure you have another thief in the party until you get them up to an adequate level.

BTW Robin, I thought your post was very informative and well thought out



[This message has been edited by Desuma_Malevois (edited 06-18-2001).]

[Bristowe]

Funny, i've always found that my assassin using a short bow with with the bracers of archery hits almost every shot (on most enemies anyway). And his backstab hits most times to unless its something like a A. golem or something with a huge AC... And the poison is super against mages

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Bristowe, Master Assassin
"Everyone dies sooner or later, why not sooner?"

[sunder]

The thing I don't like about assassins is that I can make up a great dual class fighter/thief, who will have greater fighting skills, greater thieving skills, and who can still used the poisoned weapons in the game without needing the poisoning skill.
And poisons are overrated. Who wants to wait 20 seconds or so for poison to work? If you are good the enemy is dead long before the poison works.
Your fighter/thief will only backstab x5 instead of x7, but thats not a big deal.

[Ratweed]

Wouldnt it make more sence to use a dwarf or halfing i guess not if your gonna just backstab but if your going for stealing the two i just named are gonna be better due to the fact they get bonuses to there Dexerity

[Lifetime]

Just something to add on Robin's post, being the die-hard assassin fan that I am..
Poison has the effects of a rapid acid damager. What I mean is that it deals damage extremely quickly, and it is also able to kill creatures like trolls or foes shrouded in protective magics that only elemental damages can affect.
Granted, I played an evil Fighter/Assassin, multiclassed with Shadowkeeper (so sue me ) but they most assuredly do not suck. Thieves are not intended to be fighters, they are intended to hide in the shadows and backstab. You DO get a THACO bonus when you backstab from the shadows, so hitting should not be a big problem if you have a decent strength. I feel that using long-range weapons defeats the purpose of the assassin's strength (the super high backstab mod) and while tossing poisoned bullets and darts to your heart's content might defeat some enemies, you are not making full use of the assassin.
On the choice of race, I agree with Robin, Half-Orc might work, admittedly I've never tried but it might, but what I thought prudent was to make him an elf to get the DEX bonus to compensate for the lack of Thievery skills. I never had a problem with 15 skillpoints a level, because of the thievery bonuses of my DEX. They start high enough to get you through most of early game, and certain skills like setting traps you can wait till the numbers are up there in Hide in Shadows and Move Silently. Those should be your priorities, then Finding Traps, then Setting Traps. Having Hide in Shadows up in the earlier levels might detract from your effectiveness as an all-rounder thief, but you'll be able to wear elven chains later on if you're a fighter/assassin like me, and thats where having those skills up will come in useful.
Robin did not mention that trap killing does not give you exp for the creature you killed, so you'll still need to get your hands dirty. Without that exp, you won't get your assassin to the levels you need to handle stuff by yourself. I find the assassin very versatile in that he can handle anything, and anyone, even mages without the help of support because of his poison ability, which works best against mages and which you get multiple usages of.

So just an example in actual play..
Mindflayers, which many people find hard to kill all fell one by one to me by my backstabs, assisted by my Cloak of Non-Detection, which you find early in the game, and my Ring of Invisibility and Boots of Speed. Instead of the Boots of Stealth, just pump your skillpoints high in the Stealth department and reap the benefits of the Boots of Speed, which allow you to run and hide behind corners, hide in the shadows again, then backstab another flayer, the run and hide, and repeat. I did not get hit once except in combat with the Umber Hulks.



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Why?

[Bristowe]

No mistake, fighter/thieves are really good, but i guess for myself, i'd rather have it say "Assassin" in my character sheet than "Fighter/Thief", why do you think in 3rd Ed, pnp, Assassin is a 'prestige' class.

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Bristowe, Master Assassin
"Everyone dies sooner or later, why not sooner?"